CESA Training

[The Chairman]

So not a good idea.

Not at all.

You'll find that there are many divers who do things that aren't ideal. Ignorance and hubris seem to be the most common motivating factors. Sb can certainly help with eliminating ignorance, but only you can deal with any hubris.

 

[rick00001967]

No CESAs are considered safe

serious question......then why do we teach them ? do some agencies no longer teach this ? are there articles or reports with statistics that show any injuries or deaths from doing them during ow training ?

 

[Dody]

Please don't. Rather, work on preventing yourself from ever needing a CESA.

I agree. I will most probably never dive with a closed or half closed valve. Gas management is my middle name watching my instruments probably too often. I don't exceed 40 m. I never dive solo and abort dives when my buddy tends not to stay close but... Equipment failures happen. I have read that no equipment has ever caused a rec diver death, that it is always a training issue but I am not convinced. I have also read that a reg will always fail open and will free flow but I am not convinced either. And when I tell more experienced diver that I want to buy a pony with an independant reg, they laugh at me and say that I am not a tech diver. My Instructor told me that in other 10 000 dives, he never had any OOA ... but his life line equipment is 4 times more expensive than mine

 

[Raphus]

In owd the cesa is done without any nitrogen in the tissues, because its done prior to the real diving. And its shallow, for a reason.

Getting bent is one problem, which is kinda low, because of the low depth and the low nitrogen onload.
But at 20/30m this can be an issue and is not considered safe.

The second problem. Is air trapping, which is not only caused by hold your air, but can occur, if the diver has a cold or other unknown problems.

I never practice cesa, even the shallow once, because i dont want to take a risk while training for something that should better be avoided.

But i fokus on exhaling during any kind of ascend. Especially during the last 5m, i will not ascent even 10cm without making sure my airway is open.
This way my brain is programed to exhale and i hope it will work like that when i have to do a real cesa.

Ofc i train all the other stuff to aviod getting myself into a cesa situation.

If you really want to practice it. Do it vertically.

 

[The Chairman]

And when I tell more experienced diver that I want to buy a pony with an independant reg, they laugh at me and say that I am not a tech diver.

Why be controlled by their hubris? I've gotten laughed at many a time. I dove a pony for a few years as I gained experience. When I finally decided I didn't need it, I sold it. It was way our of vis and even out of hydro. In fact, it had only ever been filled once. But hey, it got me through my years of worry.

 

[Angelo Farina]

I did never like the CESA exercise, and luckily when I was a professional instructor my agency (FIPSAS - CMAS) did not require it.
At the time, the OW course did include some serious training in free diving.
The first course was providing a certification for a max depth of 15m. This did require the student to be able to reach 15m in free diving. At that point the student was sure to be able to surface from 15 meteres and no air...
At 2nd course, the max depth was 30m. Reaching 30m in free diving is not as easy as reaching 15m, so the requirement was reduced to free diving at 25m, and descending with help of a weight.
Still, after having proven this capability, the student was sure of being able to surface from 30m without air.
So my recommendation to the OP is the following: instead of risking your health and life practicising a CESA from 30m, get trained to deep free diving by a good instructor/trainer.
Once you will learn to swim (with proper fins and an efficient kicking style) down to 30m and resurface with just one breath, then you will be confident that an emergency ascent from that depth will not be any problem for you if caught out of air while scuba diving.

 

[rick00001967]

Gas management is my middle name watching my instruments probably too often. I have also read that a reg will always fail open and will free flow but I am not convinced either. And when I tell more experienced diver that I want to buy a pony with an independant reg, they laugh at me and say that I am not a tech diver. My Instructor told me that in other 10 000 dives, he never had any OOA ... but his life line equipment is 4 times more expensive than mine

1 - that is not gas management. it is good that you are always aware of your current gas pressure but you will eventually have enough experience to know roughly how much gas you are using at a given depth. then when you look at your gauge, it will only be to confirm what you already know. you should also practice calculating your SAC rate and re-evaluating those calculations as you progress.

2 - i have always been told the same about regs only failing open. i can tell you i have personally witnessed more than one reg failing closed. always use quality gear and keep it well maintained.

3 - if you encounter a diver that laughs at you for trying to implement a commonly used form of redundant gas supply, then i would suggest you diver with someone else. the fact that you understand diving with a fully redundant gas source is actually a reasonable and intelligent thing to do is a good thing. you should be applauded for this, not ridiculed.

4 - i love when people use themselves as examples of what should be considered safe for others. "i have 10,000 dives and never had that problem". well i say, "good for you". that does not mean we ignore certain safety protocols simply because it has never affected us personally.

 

[Dody]

I did never like the CESA exercise, and luckily when I was a professional instructor my agency (FIPSAS - CMAS) did not require it.
At the time, the OW course did include some serious training in free diving.
The first course was providing a certification for a max depth of 15m. This did require the student to be able to reach 15m in free diving. At that point the student was sure to be able to surface from 15 meteres and no air...
At 2nd course, the max depth was 30m. Reaching 30m in free diving is not as easy as reaching 15m, so the requirement was reduced to free diving at 25m, and descending with help of a weight.
Still, after having proven this capability, the student was sure of being able to surface from 30m without air.
So my recommendation to the OP is the following: instead of risking your health and life practicising a CESA from 30m, get trained to deep free diving by a good instructor/trainer.
Once you will learn to swim (with proper fins and an efficient kicking style) down to 30m and resurface with just one breath, then you will be confident that an emergency ascent from that depth will not be any problem for you if caught out of air while scuba diving.

I might be wrong but there is a fundamental difference between exhaling while ascending and ascending while holding his/ her breath. In fact, ascending using freediving techniques might kill you.

 

[Angelo Farina]

I might be wrong but there is a fundamental difference between exhaling while ascending and ascending while holding his/ her breath. In fact, ascending using freediving techniques might kill you.

That's absolitely true. In fact, after three months of free diving course, we had to be "re trained" for other three months about the proper techniques of breathing underwater and exhaling while ascending...
However it must also be said that in deep free diving some techniques are used for pumping a lot of air in your lungs before diving (pushing the blood away).
During the dive, ambient pressure pushes the blood back into your lungs: so there is no space enough for all that air, when its expands back to its initial volume during ascent. Of consequence, during the ascent also deep free divers need to exhale for avoiding lung over-expansion, hence they are trained to keep the glottis open and to leave the excess air to escape.
Such deep free divers suffer no risk of "holding their breath" during a CESA.

 

[The Chairman]

So my recommendation to the OP is the following: instead of risking your health and life practicising a CESA from 30m, get trained to deep free diving by a good instructor/trainer.

That is an absolutely great idea. If you can free dive to x feet, then doing a free ascent from x feet should be easy if on Scuba.