Certification-Which One?

[Walter]

So, you're against PADI then.

I'm not against PADI. I am for giving divers what I believe to be essential tools to dive safely right out of the starting block. That includes being able to make simple rescues like bringing an unconscious diver to the surface and towing them back to the boat while giving rescue breaths, helping a panicked diver on the surface, and basic navigation. I'm for any agency or instructor that requires these things be learned prior to issuing a c-card. If an agency or instructor don't require these things today, but start requiring them tomorrow, I'll be happy to sing their praises tomorrow when they go into effect.

 

[OldNSalty]

So if student is required to learn basic rescue, navigation, diving to 130 feet, etc in their OW course does this take away from what is taught at the AOW and rescue course? and what about time to absorb this information?

From my own experience, I took OW, AOW and rescue from 3 different instructors and 3 different agencies. I felt that AOW and rescue were just an extension of what we had already learned. An example, in AOW we had to validate our navigation skills which we did not really have to do to much of in OW but the AOW course didn't add anything to my knowledge of how to do navigation. Same thing with deep diving and some of the other specialties. Aside from night diving, not a lot was presented in AOW that wasn't presented in OW. Rescue was similar. I felt the demonstration of the skills was much more intense but the basic knowledge wasn't increased by much.

 

[Walter]

I felt that AOW and rescue were just an extension of what we had already learned.

I'm sure that was the case, it usually is. In my opinion, it shouldn't be.

Advanced is the place to learn advanced aspects of diving, it is not the place to learn basic, essential skills. You should be learning new things.

Rescue should be an extension (but usually isn't because you didn't learn anything in OW), but should much more in depth than what is taught in the entry level class. Dealing with panicked divers on the surface, bringing unconscious divers from depth, and towing while giving rescue breaths is the bare bones.

 

[Mike Boswell]

Hello, Im new to the forum and to scuba diving in general. I have two dive shops in my area, One offers PADI and the other NAUI Certs. Does anyone have a suggestion on which cert to get? The positives and the negatives of either certs would be helpful. Thanks in advance.

Gateway, just the fact that you have taken the trouble to ask the question indicates to me that you will be a serious student. That is a very good sign.

IMHO. The agency is somewhat important, the instructor is far more important, but the most important element is the STUDENT! A great dive student is someone who is both physically prepared and mentally committed. This student:

1. Is physically fit.
2. Is a good swimmer.
3. Is comfortable in the water, in current and waves.
4. Is willing to study hard and learn the physics and theory of diving.
5. Is willing to work hard to master the physical skills.
6. Is committed to continue the learning process from OW to AOW, Rescue, and onwards.

If I were an instructor I would want to teach these kinds of students.

 

[ptyx]

I keep hearing "It's the Instructor NOT the Agency!" I can't help in a way from shaking my head. Yes, a good instructor can do GREAT things, BUT s/he has to work within the limitations of the agency they teach for. For example, if I taught for an agency that said teach this and you may teach NOT teach X, Y or Z in your course and another instructor was unrestricted, how would the instructor make the big difference? If I'm prohibited from teaching rescue to a basic/OW program and another instructor can teach anything he wants above and beyond the minimum, how does this play into the equation?

An agency which doesn't do a very good job making sure its minimum standards are enforced shouldn't make too much fuss about that kind of violations?

 

[DCBC]

So if student is required to learn basic rescue, navigation, diving to 130 feet, etc in their OW course does this take away from what is taught at the AOW and rescue course? and what about time to absorb this information?

From my own experience, I took OW, AOW and rescue from 3 different instructors and 3 different agencies. I felt that AOW and rescue were just an extension of what we had already learned. An example, in AOW we had to validate our navigation skills which we did not really have to do to much of in OW but the AOW course didn't add anything to my knowledge of how to do navigation. Same thing with deep diving and some of the other specialties. Aside from night diving, not a lot was presented in AOW that wasn't presented in OW. Rescue was similar. I felt the demonstration of the skills was much more intense but the basic knowledge wasn't increased by much.

I don't think that anyone here disagrees with a modular approach to diver education. I do however see that there are different opinions on what constitutes the "minimum training" that should be achieved before a diver is certified to dive unsupervised. What seems reasonable for one agency is overkill to another.

Regardless of what certification we have, we are all in the process of learning. That's not however what's being discussed. What should the diver know to dive safely with his buddy? Depth may be limited, diving conditions restricted, but when the newly certified diver dives, should he be able to rescue his buddy or be a passive observer?

The answer depends upon the training agency not the instructor. To the best of my knowledge, every agency worldwide other than PADI believes that rescue is a safety requirement and necessary for initial diver certification (Basic Diver / Openwater Diver / One Star Diver, et al). Ultimately there is no right or wrong answer to the question, as it's up to the diver to choose how he wants to be trained and when he wants to be introduced to various skill-sets and knowledge.

 

[DCBC]

Does anyone have a suggestion on which cert to get? The positives and the negatives of either certs would be helpful.

You certainly have got a lot of input. Regardless of your choice, I hope that you enjoy your program and continue to learn. Good luck in your future endeavors!

Wayne

 

[Mike Boswell]

I don't think that anyone here disagrees with a modular approach to diver education. I do however see that there are different opinions on what constitutes the "minimum training" that should be achieved before a diver is certified to dive unsupervised. What seems reasonable for one agency is overkill to another.

Regardless of what certification we have, we are all in the process of learning. That's not however what's being discussed. What should the diver know to dive safely with his buddy? Depth may be limited, diving conditions restricted, but when the newly certified diver dives, should he be able to rescue his buddy or be a passive observer?

The answer depends upon the training agency not the instructor. To the best of my knowledge, every agency worldwide other than PADI believes that rescue is a safety requirement and necessary for initial diver certification (Basic Diver / Openwater Diver / One Star Diver, et al). Ultimately there is no right or wrong answer to the question, as it's up to the diver to choose how he wants to be trained and when he wants to be introduced to various skill-sets and knowledge.

I think he should be able to rescue his buddy. That's the whole idea behind "Buddy diving". Many of these rescue procedures are clearly covered in the PADI OW manual.

In our PADI OW classes we were taught and we practiced a great many buddy procedures, including buddy breathing, air sharing, diver tows, assisting the unresponsive diver, and more. In our AOW classes we got more of this, and more still in the Rescue classes.

 

[Thalassamania]

I don't think that anyone here disagrees with a modular approach to diver education. I do however see that there are different opinions on what constitutes the "minimum training" that should be achieved before a diver is certified to dive unsupervised. What seems reasonable for one agency is overkill to another.

If by modular you mean the idea that every Pool Session One is the same and every O/W Session Three is the same, the I disagree with that rather strongly.

 

[gateway418]

First off, I would like to thank everyone that has responded. I am greatful for the insight everyone has shared. Im glad there is a forum where so many divers, from different background and experience levels, can assist someone with no experience. This is something not to be taken lightly in my opinion, everyones comments have given me something to think about. Thank you and hopefully sometime we could dive together.