Certification-Which One?

[Crush]

And they're not qualified to rescue another diver until they've done rescue, obviously.
...
The most common cause of death among divers is heart attack btw.

Rescuing an unconscious diver from the bottom was part of my basic OW instruction.

 

[pnw_diver]

... some agencies(like BSAC, for an extreme example) are more oldfashioned, and go with the instructor led, lecture style classes ... In a PADI course you might as well get to self-study the book, watch a video and then have a Q&A session.

I wouldn't make such a broad generalization with respect to PADI. My AOW class was as you describe - self-study, watch the provided video, and then a Q&A and test with the instructor, followed by the open water dives. This was at a PADI facility in Mexico.

My OW class was far different - we were expected to self-study the class materials. However, we also had instructor-led lectures on most of the material, as well as substantial confined water training. This was at a LDS.

My Rescue class was primarily self-study + substantial confined and open water training and evaluation. FWIW, the open-water skills evaluation went well beyond what PADI requires. This was at a different LDS.

I think the experience you'll have in a PADI course is more related to the instructor / school.

 

[Crush]

...while some agencies(like BSAC, for an extreme example) are more oldfashioned, and go with the instructor led, lecture style classes, basically it's like being in school.

I have had the privilege of diving with BSAC divers and have found them to be incredibly skilled, confident, fun-loving divers. I would consider myself lucky to have one as a dive buddy. If "oldfashioned (sic), ... instructor led, lecture style classes" are what it takes to be as good as them, please sign me up!

 

[DCBC]

From my article: "...Rather than bemoan the lessening of time in the classroom, instructors should embrace the additional time it provides, to teach where it is most valuable: in the water...."

I don't believe that one negates the other. You can add scope to both the classroom and the in-water training, rather than be content to do less.

 

[DCBC]

So what if there are no other 2 star divers around? I mean, I like some of the ideas that are presented there but would a PADI AOW diver do if no 2-star diver could be found?

Do other agencies and charters hold you to that rule? I guess it depends a lot on the integrity of the student.

A PADI, SDI, NASDS Rescue Diver, NAUI Advanced Rescue diver and BSAC Sports Diver is deemed equivalent to the CMAS ** Diver for the purposes of a CMAS * diving buddy. As far as the World Diving Federation is concerned, there is a requirement that the Mentor be trained in rescue with proven competence in this area.

As a person can go diving to any depth without any certification, I agree that it has more to do with the common sense and integrity of the newly certified diver to acknowledge diving recommendations for his experience level laid out by his/her training agency.

 

[kaerius]

I wouldn't make such a broad generalization with respect to PADI. My AOW class was as you describe - self-study, watch the provided video, and then a Q&A and test with the instructor, followed by the open water dives. This was at a PADI facility in Mexico.

I was trying to show it as an example of PADI teaching, not a generalization of all PADI teaching.

I have had the privilege of diving with BSAC divers and have found them to be incredibly skilled, confident, fun-loving divers. I would consider myself lucky to have one as a dive buddy. If "oldfashioned (sic), ... instructor led, lecture style classes" are what it takes to be as good as them, please sign me up!

I think it also has something to do with the kind of people that BSAC attracts, IE: mostly neckbeard/academia types. And for them, it's a good approach, for the average holliday diver, maybe not so much. I can't argue against their entry level being more thurough on theory though.

 

[gypsyjim]

A CMAS One Star Diver (*) requires a minimum of 40 hours of instruction with 6 dives. After certification, the diver must be accompanied by a diver with a ** (or better rating) and is limited to 60' until they move to the next level.

To enter a CMAS ** program the diver must have a minimum of 16 dives before entering the program (10 after certification). These 10 dives must be of various types and environments. The CMAS ** program includes 40 to 50 hours of academic and 20 openwater dives.

The 20 dives should cover a suitably wide range of different diving conditions and as far as possible include the following:

(11) Required Dives:
• (1) Navigation
• (1) Night or low visibility diving
• (4) Deep diving (130 feet/40 meters maximum depth)
• (2) Rescue dives
• (1) Search and Recovery
• (1) Light Salvage
• (1) Exploration and Mapping

(9) Elective Dives
• Beach dives with sloping entry.
• Full Facemask
• Coral Reef
• Diving from small boats.
• Diving from larger boats.
• Limited visibility dives.
• Diving during the night
• River Dives
• Cold Water Dives (Dry Suit)
• Dives to 30 – 100 feet.
• Search and recovery
• Light salvage and recovery
• Hunting and collecting
• Exploration and underwater mapping
• Non-penetration wreck diving
• Observation and data collection
• Diving in surf or currents
• Altitude diving

After a minimum of 36 dives and approx 100 hours of training you are ready to dive unsupervised. You might compare this with the duration of some other courses.

Sort of explains why my original Y cert was allowed as a reciprocal or cross over to gain a CMAS card. Not sure which other agencies that worked for.

 

[Walter]

I have two dive shops in my area, One offers PADI and the other NAUI Certs. Does anyone have a suggestion on which cert to get? The positives and the negatives of either certs would be helpful.

There are probably other choices available that you'll find if you look. Independent instructors often offer some of the best instruction to be found. Classes at colleges and universities are usually excellent. I would suggest looking at this thread to find the best class in your area.

And no it doesn't really work like that, all the agencies have similar performance requirements, how much skill needs to be demonstrated depends on the instructor, and what he or she considers skill mastery for that level of training.

Sorry, but you are mistaken. While some agencies requirements are similar, other agencies have requirements that are vastly different. Most (all?) agencies define the level of mastery they require although there is room for instructor judgement.

They're certainly qualified to dive after the OW course. I'd say they're probably not qualified/experienced enough to do their own navigating until at least AOW or about 20 dives though. And they're not qualified to rescue another diver until they've done rescue, obviously.

I would never recommend a class that produced such poorly qualified divers.

 

[TN Traveler]

Your profile says you are in TN. If you around Knoxville, there are several of us on this board who can probably help you decide which instructor(s) to use and even some not to use.

It really is the instructor, more than the Agency.

 

[kaerius]

I would never recommend a class that produced such poorly qualified divers.

So, you're against PADI then. I doubt there's one in a hundred that has navigation down pat after 4 dives. And any rescue excercises beyond providing an octopus or cramp removal are in a con-ed course(rescue). They're taught the buddy system, and looking out for signs of nitrogen narcosis, but no, surfacing with an unconscious diver, and providing in-water rescue breaths isn't in the PADI OW class.