Certification Levels

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

The problem with an AOW card is that it also gives no real indication of the level of training. Those of us who teach an AOW course that actually imparts real new skills that may be termed advanced or knowledge get lumped in with the "taste" or "tour" of what the recreational community considers advanced dives. Add to that the fact that some agencies allow dives to count towards the "advanced" rating that impart no new skills or are used as filler to avoid doing dives that require real skills. Around here altitude is used a lot as one of these. The thing that I find hilarious with this is that ALL the dives in the course are usually done at altitude so rather than adding another nav, search and recovery, deep dive, etc., they toss in an altitude dive to meet the 5th dive and for the most part nothing is done on it.

The AOW class I teach has been described a number of times so I'm not going to do that again but if anyone wants the outline PM me. I drew on my tech experience as well as the dives most useful to the majority of divers local to me and developed the course from there with the blessing of my agency. I only offer 7 different dives. The course has 6 in it. Only one is optional or may be substituted for another. I cover altitude considerations and so do not do an altitude dive. Because they all are done at altitude. So they are all altitude dives. There is no boat dive, fish ID, or other such fluff.

There is actually more skills and knowledge than was in my intro to tech class. My whole point in setting it up the way I did was that an AOW card gives divers access to sites where they could get into more serious trouble much faster with more severe consequences. I wanted my students to have the knowledge and basic "advanced" skills do deal with those situations. An AOW course that does not have bag shoots, gas planning, rescue skills, and a focus on buddy skills, situational awareness, and developing good judgment along with those skills is worthless. My students are task loaded on every dive in increasing degrees and each dive is the foundation for the next. It is also possible to fail the course or not receive a card. Ignoring safety rules will get you thrown out. No cert, no refund. Buddy separation is not an option even on the low vis dive where divers encounter what a full silt out feels like. They do no encounter this until they've gotten the skills and knowledge to not only deal with it but see it as a challenge to be overcome.

There is 8 hours of classroom plus the onsite instruction over two days. It ends up being a 24 hour course or more. I take pride in people telling me it was challenging, intense, educational, tiring, and humbling.
 
I would also argue, that in some cases, requiring AOW is not sufficient since AOW only means that the diver has been to at least 60...
I didn't know this. I thought the PADI "deep dive" went to at least 100 fsw and was a required part of AOW.

As for requiring an AOW card for some dives. I'll speculate that part of it is eliminating the need for the person accepting the booking to make a judgement call about a diver's level of experience. Imagine some loudmouth coming in and insisting that he's got plenty of experience and browbeating some poor kid working the counter, and demanding to be allowed to make the dive. Requiring the card takes the pressure off the person accepting the booking. "Sorry, sir. I'm not allowed to book you without the card. It's not my decision."
 
Jim would you say its fair comment to say "You get out of your AAW what you are prepared to put in?"
 
Did anyone notice the poster joined in 2004 and this was his first post?
And he hasn't had any other input?
Somebodies fishing here!
 
The US has been requiring cards/certs for years. My Cuz has been diving since the early 70's. She is a Marine Biologist. I was unsure what certs she had but the OP was adamant that she would be unable to dive deep Wrecks unless she had an AOW card. This was around 2006, remember AquaNuts! Turns out she has more certs than I have fins, but even with 30 years experience they wanted a Card! If you want to dive over 60' in FL you best have AOW. This is not new but getting worster!

BTW, AquaNuts was bought out by a land development company, then the economy went to sh!t, and they never built the hi-rise planned. I think the original property may have been sold and is now a scuba place again. Anyone know?
 
When I got certified the instructor told us that we "are trained to the experiences you have in class but are certified to 130'". I wasn't even aware of AOW until we were asked about it a year later in Roatan. We had been diving at half a dozen places in Aruba and Florida by that time and had never been asked. We weren't limited in Roatan by not having the card because we told them about the dives we had done on our own since certification...but decided to get AOW when we got back home to avoid hassles in the future. I learned less from the classroom part of AOW than any other class I have ever taken. Learned a lot from the dives because they were in horrible conditions, but not from anything that was taught.
 
The problem with an AOW card is that it also gives no real indication of the level of training. Those of us who teach an AOW course that actually imparts real new skills that may be termed advanced or knowledge get lumped in with the "taste" or "tour" of what the recreational community considers advanced dives. Add to that the fact that some agencies allow dives to count towards the "advanced" rating that impart no new skills or are used as filler to avoid doing dives that require real skills. Around here altitude is used a lot as one of these. The thing that I find hilarious with this is that ALL the dives in the course are usually done at altitude so rather than adding another nav, search and recovery, deep dive, etc., they toss in an altitude dive to meet the 5th dive and for the most part nothing is done on it.

The AOW class I teach has been described a number of times so I'm not going to do that again but if anyone wants the outline PM me. I drew on my tech experience as well as the dives most useful to the majority of divers local to me and developed the course from there with the blessing of my agency. I only offer 7 different dives. The course has 6 in it. Only one is optional or may be substituted for another. I cover altitude considerations and so do not do an altitude dive. Because they all are done at altitude. So they are all altitude dives. There is no boat dive, fish ID, or other such fluff.

There is actually more skills and knowledge than was in my intro to tech class. My whole point in setting it up the way I did was that an AOW card gives divers access to sites where they could get into more serious trouble much faster with more severe consequences. I wanted my students to have the knowledge and basic "advanced" skills do deal with those situations. An AOW course that does not have bag shoots, gas planning, rescue skills, and a focus on buddy skills, situational awareness, and developing good judgment along with those skills is worthless. My students are task loaded on every dive in increasing degrees and each dive is the foundation for the next. It is also possible to fail the course or not receive a card. Ignoring safety rules will get you thrown out. No cert, no refund. Buddy separation is not an option even on the low vis dive where divers encounter what a full silt out feels like. They do no encounter this until they've gotten the skills and knowledge to not only deal with it but see it as a challenge to be overcome.

There is 8 hours of classroom plus the onsite instruction over two days. It ends up being a 24 hour course or more. I take pride in people telling me it was challenging, intense, educational, tiring, and humbling.

Well Jim, you just answered why dive operators want to see AOW cert card.

It is a little analogous to a learner's permit for driving. Just because you have a liscence doesn't make you a good driver, you have to get out there and drive and get experience as a driver. Likewise, just because you have AOW certification doesn't mean you are an 'experienced' advanced diver. You have to get out there and dive.

But, the OP question is regarding do they need the certification when they clearly have the skills already. As the general consensus is since dive operators are asking for an AOW certification to go on advanced dives the OP should bite the bullet and get certified if he wants the freedom to sign up for any advanced dive. If not, given the liability issues with dive charters he may run into the unfortunate situation where he wants to do a dive but the operator won't accept his log book as proof of ability.

Then again, how do we really KNOW he did those dives? At least if he did your course we would know he is at least qualified simply by looking at your signature on the card.
 
In the 11 1/2 years I have been at Jules' Undersea Lodge, I have run into so many "certified" divers that have NO idea of what they are doing. You ask, how long have you been diving? They say, oh several years. Then watch them put their gear on totally backwards. Scares me sometimes because, we are responsible to these people and if they're not honest about their abilities what can you do but at least ask for a cert card. My husband is a commercial diver in the oil field and had done up to 400 foot dives on mixed gas and had his card stating he was a commercial diver but do you think a dive shop would have anything to do with him? Oh no. He had to go and get a sport diving cert to go diving. Wouldn't it be nice if people were just honest about what they can and can't do?

Teresa McKinna
 
Thanks for the feedback everyone (and Wolfie, no, I'm not "fishing" - just not a big "message board" guy - might change that after all the good advice).

Sounds like I should just bite the bullet and do AOW. There are always things to learn, and everybody could benefit from additional training - its just that since I only do a half dozen or so dives a year (sometimes more if I take a bigger vacation), I've never wanted to deal with the course. It also sounds like many of the courses really don't provide much outside of the experience I already have (except for Jim Lapenta - your course sounds great, though intimidating!)

Here's the funniest part - I was certified before I had a child. My son, now 16, is a certified OW diver with limited experience (perhaps 20-30 dives). I want him to take AOW - perhaps this will be a father-son thing ! I'm just betting I'll feel like a "senior" diver with him along !
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

Back
Top Bottom