What about DSAT Tec/Rec course? Or is this considered a PADI course?
Certification Agency Poll
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I hold 6 IANTD cards and 1 TDI card - but when I vote they each get one vote. So the poll is flawed.
E. itajara
frogxman
Contributor
I got the OW and AOW certifications from CMAS. All the following certifications (up to DM) were NAUI.
I general I think that in spite of the technological progress (theoretical course on video, CD etc.) the main part of the course is the OW dives with the additional information received from instructor. No video (which is pretty flat and boring with not very good actors in it) can make more impression and submit the material in more interesting form than a really experienced person. But again there are good and bad instructors, and video is uniform and standartized.
During my OW course I got a lot of information and training , much more than students get on PADI or NAUI courses (OK, my CMAS courses took place on a different continent, which could play its role). May be some of this information was excessive, but as I realized later it was very valuable, and I recalled the instructions and training I got then many times. BTW I didn't have pool sessions at all. All the OW dives (including boat dives and dives to 60') were conducted in the open sea, which was sometimes very rough. When I finished the course I felt myself pretty confident( Of course it took quite a long time untill I started feeling really confident).
You can ask me why I chose NAUI and not continued with CMAS, it's because I feel that PADI is a more commercial organization than NAUI. I don't believe into mix of commerce and education.
FrogX
I general I think that in spite of the technological progress (theoretical course on video, CD etc.) the main part of the course is the OW dives with the additional information received from instructor. No video (which is pretty flat and boring with not very good actors in it) can make more impression and submit the material in more interesting form than a really experienced person. But again there are good and bad instructors, and video is uniform and standartized.
During my OW course I got a lot of information and training , much more than students get on PADI or NAUI courses (OK, my CMAS courses took place on a different continent, which could play its role). May be some of this information was excessive, but as I realized later it was very valuable, and I recalled the instructions and training I got then many times. BTW I didn't have pool sessions at all. All the OW dives (including boat dives and dives to 60') were conducted in the open sea, which was sometimes very rough. When I finished the course I felt myself pretty confident( Of course it took quite a long time untill I started feeling really confident).
You can ask me why I chose NAUI and not continued with CMAS, it's because I feel that PADI is a more commercial organization than NAUI. I don't believe into mix of commerce and education.
FrogX
frogxman
Contributor
Sorry,
I didn't finish what I wanted to say. CMAS is good organization, but unfortunately not well known on American continent.
I didn't finish what I wanted to say. CMAS is good organization, but unfortunately not well known on American continent.
calitg8r
Guest
Both OW and AOW throough YMCA....Hey, that sounds like a catchy tune...
"Young man ...la la la...la la la..."
"Young man ...la la la...la la la..."
Well frogx, I can sympathize with your reservations about some scuba schools that seem to be only interested in taking your money but to say that you don't believe a scuba training agency should be a profit making venture is pretty naive. Of all the agencies currently training, the top 2 (PADI and SSI - see certification poll on this board) are definately run as a business and return a profit to their shareholders. SSI in fact, requires it's instructors to be registered with a participating store or they can't teach. It's actually a very short list of those that are not business ventures in existence to turn a profit.
If that concept bothers you realize 2 things:
1. All successful schools are businesses. I assume you've heard of Harvard, Yale, MIT or any one of a dozen commercial diving schools that have a great reputation. How long do you think they'd have existed if they didn't make money?
2. All scuba training agencies that are 'supposedly' non-profit actually do make money. The not-for-profit ones simply spend the money before the end of the year financial report rather than openly declaring a dividend. They spend the money on whatever they want including themselves with no strict accountability to the customers (students). That way they can declare they are 'non-profit' (sure, they spent all the profit). Generally they also are not showing great success in today's market. NAUI was once the largest in North America and is now a poor third and falling.
In deference to you, I agree that the agency and it's agents (the stores and instructors) must ensure that adherence to the standards is the #1 priority. If that's accomplished, they will be profitable because the divers will recognize the fact and flock to them. That's the theory anyway! As in life, in any group of people there are some who twist things around and want to make money at the expense of their integrity and without regard for the quality (and therefore the safety) of their customers.
I'm a CMAS 3 Star instructor, a prolific NAUI instructor since the 70's and the owner of a very successful PADI 5 Star CDC. They all charge for their courses and materials and present programs that are surprisingly similar. PADI has just been much better at managing its business. A heck of a lot of the money PADI receives is re-invested in the improvement and growth of its product - scuba diver training. Every diver and every agency has benefited from that influx of money over the past 25 years. Sure it hurts each month when I send a big check to PADI but at least I can see where the money goes and what I and my customers get in return plus, I have some input and can influence PADI a bit.
If that concept bothers you realize 2 things:
1. All successful schools are businesses. I assume you've heard of Harvard, Yale, MIT or any one of a dozen commercial diving schools that have a great reputation. How long do you think they'd have existed if they didn't make money?
2. All scuba training agencies that are 'supposedly' non-profit actually do make money. The not-for-profit ones simply spend the money before the end of the year financial report rather than openly declaring a dividend. They spend the money on whatever they want including themselves with no strict accountability to the customers (students). That way they can declare they are 'non-profit' (sure, they spent all the profit). Generally they also are not showing great success in today's market. NAUI was once the largest in North America and is now a poor third and falling.
In deference to you, I agree that the agency and it's agents (the stores and instructors) must ensure that adherence to the standards is the #1 priority. If that's accomplished, they will be profitable because the divers will recognize the fact and flock to them. That's the theory anyway! As in life, in any group of people there are some who twist things around and want to make money at the expense of their integrity and without regard for the quality (and therefore the safety) of their customers.
I'm a CMAS 3 Star instructor, a prolific NAUI instructor since the 70's and the owner of a very successful PADI 5 Star CDC. They all charge for their courses and materials and present programs that are surprisingly similar. PADI has just been much better at managing its business. A heck of a lot of the money PADI receives is re-invested in the improvement and growth of its product - scuba diver training. Every diver and every agency has benefited from that influx of money over the past 25 years. Sure it hurts each month when I send a big check to PADI but at least I can see where the money goes and what I and my customers get in return plus, I have some input and can influence PADI a bit.
My OW, AOW,Rescue, Nitrox and DM were PADI.
My rebreather cert is TDI
With SSI I have 8 specialties, Dive Con, AI, OWI, and a few specialty instructor certs.
One of many good things with SSI is that you can put several specialties on one card saving money.
Seems like I'm leaving something out, oh well.
My rebreather cert is TDI
With SSI I have 8 specialties, Dive Con, AI, OWI, and a few specialty instructor certs.
One of many good things with SSI is that you can put several specialties on one card saving money.
Seems like I'm leaving something out, oh well.
Duncan Price
Contributor
Cave Diving Group (of Great Britain) established 1946 making it probably the oldest technical diving agency in the World.
I don't hold any other qualifications - I just go and do it...
Duncan
I don't hold any other qualifications - I just go and do it...
Duncan
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BSAC Sport Diver (many moons ago...)
NAUI Instructor
I like DIR, Just not the Attitude that seems to come with it.
I'll just add a thought with reference to the posts below. Comercial Diving is a Business and thus the training/education should be run as such. Sport diving is a recreational Activity. I Stay with Naui for the fact I like to keep the Profit-Generating Mindset out of the Classroom.
just my $0.02
Wille
NAUI Instructor
I like DIR, Just not the Attitude that seems to come with it.
I'll just add a thought with reference to the posts below. Comercial Diving is a Business and thus the training/education should be run as such. Sport diving is a recreational Activity. I Stay with Naui for the fact I like to keep the Profit-Generating Mindset out of the Classroom.
just my $0.02
Wille
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