CDWS dissolved...?

[macrobubble]

I've not seen a single good thing the CDWS does. Possibly in Sharm they do things (especially for those centres they're related to/pay the backsheesh etc) but outside there they seem to contribute absolutely nothing what-so-ever towards conservation or diver safety. It seems they have a policy to actively ignore any complaints/queries even those with photographic evidence.

From my own experience I can say the exact opposite on several accounts.
They have acted on complaints, have given reasonable advise, have helped on legal issues - and all that without being affiliated or related to them in any way. The people I´ve dealt with were sensible and polite (without one too well known exception who is no longer with them) and showed great understanding about the needs of the industry. They were never prejudiced against foreigners, realistic and really care about the standards and the safty of diving in Egypt.
Yes, sometimes they offered stupid ideas (which mostly were corrected sooner or later), they asked for quite a bit of money annually, they allowed themselves to judge and interfere in my work as an instructor (questioning students and divers), which I don´t think they are either qualified nor do they have a right to do so (only the relevent agencys can judge my work) - but over all their influence on diving in Egypt was way more positive than negative.

I don´t know your experiences with the CDWS, but judging from your posts they must have been not very pleasant, to say the least...
I still think it is a little bit unfair to dismiss a whole organisation with all the people involved as "corrupt" based on probably isolated incidents. You are of course entitled to your opinion, but I would caution against making them the one and only defining measuring stick.

 

[divebunnie]

Crowley, you are correct, there is at least one, possibly two shiny new moorings on Temple. Unfortunately one is slightly further away from the pinnacles than the older one, but at least it is there.

I was in the Gardens the other day and sadly still no new moorings have been added. Let's hope that will be next on their list.

Thankfully I still believe in philanthropy, and asking such a large group of individuals to organise themselves in a country where it is actually illegal to set up an independent charity (issues with groups of people raising money for unsavoury purposes) would be a little challenging.

 

[String]

I still think it is a little bit unfair to dismiss a whole organisation with all the people involved as "corrupt" based on probably isolated incidents. You are of course entitled to your opinion, but I would caution against making them the one and only defining measuring stick.

Far from isolated incidents. Personally i've never had to do a lot with them other than pay the money, sit the utterly pointless exam and collect a card. I have (and others) stopped bothering reporting anything at all to them though (including the very things they've asked people to photograph and report) as to my knowledge not a single person has ever received even a reply to an initial mail or return phone call and no action was ever taken. I know of several centres who have had licence issues due to now paying backsheesh, other centres that are in business despite failing audit due to paying it and many other things.

As far as the report in this thread of more money i doubt it makes any difference - even their chairman states:

“All functions that have to do with quality control, inspections, rules enforcement, and technical standards are to be carried out by the Ministry of Tourism.”

Given that, what exactly are they supposed to even be doing now?
(Not that the MoT are doing anything either - they're more concerned with keeping their more dubious higher members out of jail currently)

Ive witnessed the corruption in the CDWS first hand several times and the open way in which they go about it. Egypt badly needs a regulatory body for diving now more than ever, one with teeth that actually does things but it needs a body that's fair to all, completely transparent and independently audited as opposed to this love-child of a certain person (who incidentally was arrested for fraud!) which is fair from transparent, isn't audited at all and picks and chooses its actions depending on whether they know, are related or paid by someone!

 

[divebunnie]

I have a feeling macrobubble's reply here is actually in response to yet another post from a certain person up in Alexandria now calling himself cool2... It appears the moderators have deleted the original post.. probably because it is a pack of lies.

 

[DevonDiver]

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[elmagnoon]

As always - I know the CDWS has its issues, but actually there are some people in there who really are genuinely trying to do the best they can for the Egyptian Red Sea, much as others may not wish to recognise this. A corrupt body that actually really does some good stuff, however small, is better than a corrupt body that does nothing at all and me, as well as many of my colleagues, would like to see them continue. It might be small beans, but small beans are better than no beans.

Cheers

C.

An organization free of corruption and one that aims to serve the industry and its members is the only option. A rich person can certainly be part of the organization but he/she can not have interest in policies set by the same agency. If such persons want to help, by all, there are many ways to help the industry and we all know we need such people. The point is CDWS is not a non-profit/volunteer organization. It sets rules ,regulations and standards that directly affect people's livelihood and little corruption could mean lots of suffering for some.

Ahmm, again the failure of dive centers to organize and self regulate is the main reason the industry is so divided. A community that looks for laws and enforcement to regulate its behavior is a failed one. That pretty well applies to almost all aspects of our lives today.

 

[Crowley]

An organization free of corruption and one that aims to serve the industry and its members is the only option. A rich person can certainly be part of the organization but he/she can not have interest in policies set by the same agency. If such persons want to help, by all, there are many ways to help the industry and we all know we need such people. The point is CDWS is not a non-profit/volunteer organization. It sets rules ,regulations and standards that directly affect people's livelihood and little corruption could mean lots of suffering for some.

Ahmm, again the failure of dive centers to organize and self regulate is the main reason the industry is so divided. A community that looks for laws and enforcement to regulate its behavior is a failed one. That pretty well applies to almost all aspects of our lives today.

I'm not sure this is correct - because the CDWS is sponsored by the government, but its members are the dive and watersports operators. In a way, it is indeed self-regulation, because members meet to discuss any necessary changes to standards or practice.

Yes, there is probably some corruption involved, but name me one national government that is wholly transparent and whose senior politicians are all innocent of taking back-handers somewhere. Also, those members of the chamber who may be guilty of nepotism and the - ahem - re-distribution of wealth have their own business interests to look after - and the only way to run a successful business here in a vast European market is to ensure that safe diving practices and environmental standards are adhered to - and we regularly get customers who comment on how they were mistreated or misled in other locations and did not feel comfortably returning to that dive centre.

The business ethic and competition amongst the big players here ensures that the dive industry is practically self-regulating; they are not asking the government to make rules because the centres somehow don't know what they are doing - rather the government has handed over the responsibility to the people who know their business best.

Yes, there are problems, and corruption may be one of them, and for sure it an imperfect system and quite rightly, a volunteer organisation that is entirely free of corruption would be great, but this is big business, not the girl guides and as I said before, it's better to have it than not.

Cheers

C.

 

[macrobubble]

edited because the offending post was deleted by the moderator.
Thanks!

 

[Crowley]

Okay this is what I heard in a staff meeting on Friday..., and from somebody present at the meeting so...

Although official funding has been withdrawn, the CDWS is continuing to operate thanks to private donations and financial backing from a "bank that wishes to remain nameless". New moorings have been recently installed in Marsa Bareika and Marsa Ghoslani (snorkelling boats) and also Jackson Reef, Gordon Reef, South Laguna and Temple (also popular snorkeling destinations - and not snorkeling, not diving, because that's where the money is, after all.) Next week moorings are to be replaced in the Gardens, Ras Umm Sid, anotherin Temple, possibly Ras Nasrani, Ras Bob and White Knight also (hopefully)

The exams and card production are operating on a volunteer basis. 31 staff members in Sharm lost their jobs because of the cuts, and there is almost no communication between the CDWS and the tourist ministry, 30% of donations to the CDWS are forwarded on to the government, such as it may be.

There is an open meeting next month (I will ask my boss for the date) where all members are invited to attend, and I think I will pop along, actually.

Here's hoping,

C.

 

[macrobubble]

..., and there is almost no communication between the CDWS and the tourist ministry, 30% of donations to the CDWS are forwarded on to the government, such as it may be.

What?
They get the funding withdrawn, they don´t (won´t, can´t - whatever) communicate with the government, but they have to give them 30% of all donations they recieve? That´s unbelievable!