CCR: Tool or death trap?

[SuPrBuGmAn]

Or some people just get sloppy. I can't recall specifics, but 2 or 3 of the deaths that I heard of had problems that should have been caught during a pre-dive check. I also heard rumor (unverified) of someone who was used to letting their unit fly itself and their lack of manual skills almost caused an incident when a failure occurred.

I can see that, but how does the industry handle this? Rebreathers obviously don't handle sloppiness. So should refreshers be necessary? Should instructors require more training in order to weed out persons who are likely to become sloppy?

I would not(and I know you're not insinuating) say that the smaller rebreather diver population, is more prone to become sloppy. I would think that a similar percentage of the much larger OC population also gets sloppy. The difference is, a missed or aborted dive on OC, rarely a death. Whereas, it seems far more common that the sloppy rebreather diver gets dead.(ie, deathboxed)

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

Buying a CCR is like a normal person buying a nuclear powered car...you will never have to buy gas again--awesome duration , but before each drive there is a huge AND "CRITICAL" checklist, and during each drive, the driver MUST monitor many key processes , and failure to be attentive to all of these at all times, can be catastrophic, as in turning the car into a nuclear bomb....

So as far as I'm concerned, I have no interest in strapping a nuclear bomb to my back just so I have better duration and depth

I agree 100%, and ontop of that, there are lots of people who market that nuclear powered car to the normal public saying its as safe are safer than your nice shiney doublecab pickup.

 

[PfcAJ]

Or some people just get sloppy. I can't recall specifics, but 2 or 3 of the deaths that I heard of had problems that should have been caught during a pre-dive check. I also heard rumor (unverified) of someone who was used to letting their unit fly itself and their lack of manual skills almost caused an incident when a failure occurred.

I guess the crappy part about CCR is that if you DO miss something in your predive check, winding up dead is a somewhat common result. If I miss something on my OC predive check, I'll probably just be inconvenienced for a bit.

To me, rebreathers (of all types) are a powerful tool that can be extremely beneficial or ridiculously dangerous and risky. It seems like most of the RB deaths lately have been on dives where open circuit would have been just fine.

 

[LiteHedded]

you can get a lot done on open circuit. you dont need fancy cool looking gadgets (that can kill you) for the vast majority of dives.
i think a lot of people aren't properly weighing the risk/reward with these things

 

[kombiguy]

On the other hand, I'm 53 years old and I've had a neck surgery and knee arthritis. A set of steel doubles, plus 2 AL 40s, is a large load t be lifting up a ladder or waddling around a pitching deck. I'm trying to convince the spousal unit that I need a rebreather to keep me from suffering. Yes, more demanding to fly. Yes, they require more attention to detail. But then again, so does flying IFR or mountaineering.
The fact that people die doing things is not necessarily damning to the thing being done. Sometimes, the risk is worth it if one is fully informed.

 

[PfcAJ]

You still end up with nearly the same amount of stuff when you add in OC bailout, though...

RBs just aren't a magic carpet.

 

[danvolker]

You still end up with nearly the same amount of stuff when you add in OC bailout, though...

RBs just aren't a magic carpet.

Absolutely....the guys looking at the CCR's for this should be looking at this instead
Brownie's Yacht Toys : Triton Submarines ... Very easy on your back, huge duration and depth possible, really not that complicated to operate, is a great excuse to own a good sized boat also, so you can have a good method of transporting and launching.
Nobody ever said dealing with a bad back or bad knees was going to be inexpensive

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

You can scale your diving back to recreational limits, or lesser technical dives, without taking on any additional equipment that may change your risk/reward ratio, and decrease your physical demands.

I promise you, nobody's seen everything shallow.

 

[Doppler]

I dive two very different rebreathers... one totally manual and the other computer controlled. They both have benefits and drawbacks. Neither is "trying to kill me." I take exception to the suggestion otherwise. As Bill Main said a while ago, equipment failure is unlikely to kill you, but your reaction (of lack of reaction) will.

I do however, have a suggestion that may explain some of the statistical blips that seem to gather around CCR incidents.

Rebreathers cost a lot.
Disposable income is easier to come by for most in middle-age and later.
The average middle-aged North American (and European) is a heart-attack waiting to happen.

NOW a question for you.

If a CCR manufacturer or Certifying agency or instructor asked you to complete a stress-test before "allowing" access to their unit/training/program (about a ($60 cost), how would you feel about it and how would YOU react if the test showed you to be at high-risk (let's say around top 15 percentile) of heart attack/stroke?

 

[LiteHedded]

I dive two very different rebreathers... one totally manual and the other computer controlled. They both have benefits and drawbacks. Neither is "trying to kill me." I take exception to the suggestion otherwise. As Bill Main said a while ago, equipment failure is unlikely to kill you, but your reaction (of lack of reaction) will.

I do however, have a suggestion that may explain some of the statistical blips that seem to gather around CCR incidents.

Rebreathers cost a lot.
Disposable income is easier to come by for most in middle-age and later.
The average middle-aged North American (and European) is a heart-attack waiting to happen.

NOW a question for you.

If a CCR manufacturer or Certifying agency or instructor asked you to complete a stress-test before "allowing" access to their unit/training/program (about a ($60 cost), how would you feel about it and how would YOU react if the test showed you to be at high-risk (let's say around top 15 percentile) of heart attack/stroke?

I would probably scale back my diving