CCR: Sooner or later?

[ScoobaChef]

With the kind of diving that I'm slowly working towards and given the rise in the cost of helium, I know that ultimately CCR will be where I end up. In discussions with some of the top instructors around me, I've come across two schools of thought.

1. Since piloting a rebreather requires a different skill set and almost complete retraining to get to an equivalent OC level, it's better to start as early as possible and progress along at the same level as my OC training.

2. It's not really worth it until you get to a really advanced level and can fully take advantage of the benefits of using a rebreather. Also that stronger OC diving skills will translate into an easier time mastering CCR.

i can see the merits on both sides, but I'd like to throw it out there to get some personal opinions from those who have done it.

 

[nadwidny]

With the kind of diving that I'm slowly working towards and given the rise in the cost of helium, I know that ultimately CCR will be where I end up. In discussions with some of the top instructors around me, I've come across two schools of thought.

1. Since piloting a rebreather requires a different skill set and almost complete retraining to get to an equivalent OC level, it's better to start as early as possible and progress along at the same level as my OC training.

2. It's not really worth it until you get to a really advanced level and can fully take advantage of the benefits of using a rebreather. Also that stronger OC diving skills will translate into an easier time mastering CCR.

i can see the merits on both sides, but I'd like to throw it out there to get some personal opinions from those who have done it.

You don't "pilot" a rebreather. You dive it. Pilots fly planes.

I've always been a firm believer that strong OC skills translate into an easier transition into CC. The better you are on OC, the smoother the transition and the less fappfing around you'll have when you go to CC. My own transition was surprisingly easy and seamless, especially compared to all the horror stories I heard from others I knew that switched before me. But when I thought about it I realized that the people that I knew that went CC and reported problems with buoyancy, etc were bad divers to begin with so it's no surprise that they had a hard time switching.

So I'm on the "get proficient on OC" first side. After all if you have to bail out on an RB then you are on OC. As someone pointed out somewhere else, being off the line on deco in a ripping current is no place to start to learn bottle rotations and gas switches.

However the price of helium will soon become an economic barrier to OC technical diving so I'm not sure what I would do now.

 

[tstormdiver]

I am going through the process right now. I have been working on the equivalent of OW on my rebreather for the past several months. I am on my instructor's staff & though he does not charge me for the education,... I am working on this on his schedule. I kind of appreciate the slow pace, though I know it is not practical to most. It has allowed me to learn in depth all the ins & outs. My instructor is constantly lecturing me & quizzing me when I'm working at the shop. Learning to pilot my unit has really been a familiar change. I say that because some of what I have learned is totally new; totally different,.. yet some of it I have been able to easily transfer skills from my OC diving. One of the most difficult skills for me was the realization & control of another air space (counterlungs). Now I have a BC, Drysuit & counterlungs to deal with. At first it was very difficult to deal with & I mismanaged some uncontrolled & risky ascents. After a few times I have finally gotten to where I can control the air spaces with no problems,... even during a "blue water" ascent, with no references other than my ears & my computer. General buoyancy control is also very different,.. yet I have found to be actually very stable. I can now literally hold position in the water column,.... no slight up & down from breathing. Breathing is very different from OC. Now, this I really can not explain how it is different,... I just know it is. I have been able to use my OC diving skills I have acquired over the years to help with some of the skills I have been presented with. I started learning rebreather when I had about 750 OC dives. My OC skills have helped me to be able to prioritize what I need to do, how to quickly find the equipment I need & how to manage multitasking skills. So to answer your questions,... there is no concrete or correct answer. There is a little of both question parts that plays into it. I would suggest getting with your prospective CCR instructor, Talk about the ins & outs, let him see you in the water in OC, to determine if your OC skills are where they can help or hinder you. Then do some "try dives" on the unit(s) you want to use. Although this is quite a bit to do & may only work in a perfect world,... it would give you better answers to the questions you have, that really can't be answered because it is sooo individual.

 

[Superlyte27]

You don't "pilot" a rebreather. You dive it. Pilots fly planes.

I've always been a firm believer that strong OC skills translate into an easier transition into CC. The better you are on OC, the smoother the transition and the less fappfing around you'll have when you go to CC.

I wholeheartedly DISAGREE.
I had the toughest time on a rebreather. Being a technical diver for almost two decades, and nearly all of those dives involving doubles, moving to a rebreather was the hardest thing I've done in diving.

I'm told that the better you are on OC, the harder you'll have it on CCR. And that was certainly my experience. But I'm sure that isn't everyone's experience.

What I will say is this. Now that I have my rebreather working good for me, I really wish I had started 15 years ago diving them. It's the most enjoyable diving ever. And not having to look at your pressure gauge is a freedom OC divers will never understand.

 

[mmadiver]

With CCRs comes additional task loading under normal situations, more so with a rig malfunction. You must have basic diving skills mastered or when that malfunction strikes any flaw in your form will be amplified further increasing your task load.
OC is where basic diving skills should be practiced, all of them carry over CCRs. How strong should your OC skills be? How many OC dives before CCRs? Only you can decide that, but for reference a Navy Diver usually has less than 20 OC dives before starting rebreathers in Dive School.

 

[ScoobaChef]

Interesting responses so far. I have a try dive on a JJ next week to see what it's all about and let my future instructor have a chance to rate my skills.

 

[Superlyte27]

Well, truthfully, I didn't look at the OP's dive count.

I do believe you should have every single aspect of OC diving mastered before moving to a CCR. At 90 dives, I'm not sure that's possible. You need to be at a point where no matter what happens underwater, you're certain you can survive without the aid of anyone else.

That's just my take on it. I could be completely wrong. I've only got about 60 hours on a CCR. But I recently received the Sheck Exley award for cave diving, all of which was done on OC.

 

[ScoobaChef]

Well, truthfully, I didn't look at the OP's dive count.

I do believe you should have every single aspect of OC diving mastered before moving to a CCR. At 90 dives, I'm not sure that's possible. You need to be at a point where no matter what happens underwater, you're certain you can survive without the aid of anyone else.

That's just my take on it. I could be completely wrong. I've only got about 60 hours on a CCR. But I recently received the Sheck Exley award for cave diving, all of which was done on OC.

I agree with you about the dive count. I've been trained hard and well so far, but I know I still have a lot to learn and get better at. For me personally, I'm not even considering the switch till at least a year from now. I just plan ahead and spend a lot of time thinking about the best way to go about things to get where I wanna go.

 

[Superlyte27]

I will say this...

My wife, for the first time ever, and after diving for 15+ years asked if she could be a cave diver. She's not made a tremendous amount of dives, and truthfully she's probably got less than you. But, she will probably NEVER dive doubles. I'm buying a rebreather at the end of the year and she will probably take cave class on a CCR. But only after a bazillion open water dives and only after rock solid proficiency on the unit.

 

[drbill]

You don't "pilot" a rebreather. You dive it. Pilots fly planes.

Pilots also "fly" submersibles... I know a number of them who use that term.

As for CCR, there is enough "instrumentation" that it may look like a pilot's cockpit to some! That's one reason I have yet to make the switch to CCR... I'm focused on my filming underwater and pretty well know my dive profiles after 51 years of doing it on OC. Not sure I'd pay the proper attention to the CCR feedback.