CCR Cave course duration

[tbone1004]

Well at least some instructors are supposedly doing 6 day zero to hero cave CCR and either course dives or dives immediately afterwards in Eagle's - which seems to be a standards violation if not in practice than definitely in spirit.

If you're offered such "training" as a student, typically with copious amounts of flattery by the instructor, it's because your instructor is bored and would rather break standards than build your experience in a progressive manner. You've been shortchanged.

This is why we can't have nice things. Police your own, FL people.

They may be graduating them as soon as they hit the agency standards and bending the rules with graduation dives. Disappointed but not surprised...

 

[beldridg]

It is not with any agency that I am aware and not with NAUI. CCR Cave has to abide by the same depth limits as OC cave and while you can conduct trimix in the Nest with full cave divers, the reverse does not apply.

Yep.

I did my full cave at Ginnie and surrounding caves and then my MOD3/Hypoxic a couple years later at Eagles Nest.

I would think the problem with doing full cave at Eagles Nest (other than violating the standards) would be the logistics and the deco time built up doing regular cave training exercises at that depth. I was doing 2 dives a day at 90-120 minutes each during cave training. I can't imagine doing that at Eagles Nest.

Plus, all the extra bailout gas you would need to have.

And, the logistics of doing that many days of continuous diving at Eagles Nest would also be tough.

- brett

 

[kensuf]

TDI CCR Cavern-2 days/5 dives
TDI CCR Intro-2 days/4 dives
TDI CCR Full-2 days?/6 dives-it's not clear but since 3 sites are called out over 6 dives you could conceivably do 2 in the morning and one in the afternoon at a different site. Practically 3 days though.

Total 6 if you're busting ass, 7 is still a full load, 8 preferable to give a rest day in the middle. Nothing says they can't be done consecutively. If I was going Saturday-Sunday then Saturday is gear configuration, land drills/OW line work. Sunday/Mon/Tues/Wed is basically intro stuff learning lights out/air sharing/etc, all the fundamental stuff. Give Thurs as a recovery day to let everything set in and make any modifications to gear/land drills. Certify as "intro" and let them go do a fun dive if they want and reset, then Fri/Sat/Sun for full cave.

I don't think you should do that though personally, but that wasn't the question. Controversial, but I do think at least one full day should be done on open circuit to let them feel the tick-tock and give you some full dives to get a SAC rate since I think SAC swims are horsesh!t. Let them do a full dive and base their SAC rate on the whole dive not some 200ft calculated swim.

TDI Rebreather Full Cave Diver is 4 days when taught as a stand-alone course. Section 37.6, duration: https://www.tdisdi.com/wp-content/u...r Standards_37_Rebreather_Full_Cave_Diver.pdf

Typically, a minimum of 7 days is required to go from zero to full CCR hero.

 

[kensuf]

Huh?
How or why would anyone do CCR cavern? What do you bring for BO a 40 and call it good? Assuming 130ft max total distance from the surface - or maybe that limit doesnt apply for CCR Cavern?

I actually think CCR cavern should be a thing, but not CCR intro. There may be people that have zero interest in going beyond the cavern zone, and therefore don't really need redundant bailout, etc, but they primarily dive CCR.

 

[tbone1004]

TDI Rebreather Full Cave Diver is 4 days when taught as a stand-alone course. Section 37.6, duration: https://www.tdisdi.com/wp-content/uploads/files/sandp/currentYear/TDI/part 2/pdf/individual/TDI Diver Standards_37_Rebreather_Full_Cave_Diver.pdf

Typically, a minimum of 7 days is required to go from zero to full CCR hero.

ahh, somehow I missed that. That makes much more sense. If that course is 4, is there a day dropped if you do cavern/intro together? It would be 2+2+4 so where is the day dropped?

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

NSS-CDS requires a minimum of 6 days and a minimum of 600 minutes of cave bottom time. This is for someone with no cave training but who have a minimum 25 dives and 35 hours of bottom time on their CCR.

If someone is fully cave certified and has the requisite hours on their CCR the course is a minimum of 3 days and 300 minutes of cave bottom time.

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

IMO Eagles' Nest is not suitable for a CCR cave class. The depth to the debris cone is at the depth limit for a cave or CCR cave class. Also IMO Eagles' Nest is only a suitable dive site for a fully certified cave diver who is trimix certified or under instruction for trimix.

END for cave diving should never exceed 130 feet.

 

[Dr. Doug Ebersole]

I agree completely with Jim (who is vastly more experienced than me). In my opinion, Eagle's Nest is NOT suitable for a CCR cave class, even for someone who is already open circuit full trimix certified. It should be reserved for those who are (1) already cave certified (either open circuit or CCR cave) and (2) are full trimix certified or are in training for full trimix.

 

[hroark2112]

By IANTD standards, the MINIMUMS are 10 dives and 600 minutes of in-water time. When I teach CCR cave the course is a week and we always exceed those numbers.

Not to mention all the skills will be repeated as necessary as needed!!

I was expecting a lot of in water and above water time. I was not anticipating how much extra time would be necessary to get through all the information. Every night before and after dinner we were reviewing the day's dives, the good and the bad (not to mention the ugly!) and evaluating the day's activities. I definitely felt like it was an awesome week and it was well worth every minute!

 

[Dr. Doug Ebersole]

Anthony (hroark2112) -- I'm glad you enjoyed the course. We DEFINITELY got a lot of academics and diving done in a week! I thoroughly enjoyed it as well!!!