Cavern...

[Mike Edmonston]

You disagree that the NAUI progression has a nicer arrangement of skills and limits than some of the alternatives? Do you even know all the other agencies limits, I don't. And I don't care. But having 1/3rds and 2 navigational decisions (baby steps) is a good place for alot of divers to be in the middle of their cave diving career. Vs. no jumps at the intro level to many jumps at the full level.

 

[Scubastud16]

Uh oh, looks like a bad can of worms got opened up here lol.

 

[contender]

i don't want 'nice'. i want to live to enjoy it. 'nice' is a bonus.

so, anyway, i disagree with this statement...

Maybe you should read up on standards before you make a statement like that. NAUI Cavern & Cave training is an outstanding program. They allow some things the other agencies don't in the Intro level, such as doubles. Disagreement with a statement is your right, but at least understand why you don't agree with it. "Living" is a primary concern in any agencies overhead training.
Mike, care to expand?

 

[BabyDuck]

ok, i couldn't find actual standards online, but i'll apologize anyway. you definitely have 'naui', but i read 'padi'. the naui class outlines look great. my only thought would be to make sure the cave cards are widely accepted since ginnie springs' website only mentions naui cavern.

i'm padi ow & aow, so this isn't padi bashing of their basics, but *boy*, does the cavern leave *a lot* to be desired. i've seen a class in the water. 20 people with snorkels and typical dangly octos and without redundant air. to one instructor. in the p1 cavern. brings the phrase 'mcf' to new levels. though i'm sure they thought he was 'nice'... it's the 'you don't know what you don't know' problem.

so 'sorry' to naui - i take it back.

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

Ginnie excepts NAUI, and will allow you to dive doubles within the Devil's system at Cave I level, a luxury us Intro divers, under different agencies, aren't allowed without a permission slip(even if our agency allows it - ie, TDI Intro - which allows doubles, although not accepted by Ginnie - DUMB!).

I don't know of any system that discriminates against NAUI Cave, that isn't agency specific regardless.

 

[Mike Edmonston]

Maybe you should read up on standards before you make a statement like that. NAUI Cavern & Cave training is an outstanding program. They allow some things the other agencies don't in the Intro level, such as doubles. Disagreement with a statement is your right, but at least understand why you don't agree with it. "Living" is a primary concern in any agencies overhead training.
Mike, care to expand?

Hi guys,

Here are the current course outlines, I will write the standards below that.

Cavern:

Cavern Diver is a no-decompression course designed to teach you the fundamental skills and knowledge for cavern diving above 100 fsw / 30 msw and at a combined depth and distance penetration less than 200 feet / 60 meters from the surface.
During your course, you will complete a minimum of three cavern dives in at least two different sites within daylight and no-decompression limits, and become proficient in the use of spools and reels, team and line placement, and zero visibility/touch contact communications while following a line, as well as many other skills necessary to be a competent Cavern Diver.
Dive planning (including EANx if used) penetration distance within cavern diver limits, safety drills, equipment checks, gas sharing, guideline deployment and removal techniques, propulsion techniques, lost teammate and guideline drills and emergency procedures will also be covered in your Cavern Diver course.

Cave1/2/3:

Once you complete your Level I Cave Diver course, you will be able to plan and execute limited penetration, simple-navigation no decompression cave dives; certified Level II Cave Divers are qualified to plan and execute multiple navigational decisions on cave dives with staged cylinders; certified Level III Cave Divers are qualified to plan and execute extended penetration cave dives.

OK In a nutshell:

CAVERN: classroom 8 hours / 2 dives 2 different sites - Depth MAX 100ft - Combined penetration and depth 200ft MAX. Must remain in dailight zone. NO DECO.

Cave1: classroom 12 hours / 10 dives 3 different sites - Depth MAX 100ft - dive turns at thirds or when NO DECO limit is reached. no more than 2 navigational decisions. NO DECO. NTEC gear config must be used by students and instructor. NO Sidemount / No-mount allowed.

Cave2: classroom 15 hours / 7 dives 3 different sites IN ADDITION, 1 open water skills development dive, 1 cavern full survey dive, 5 cave dives using stage cylinders - Students must carry stage and deco cylinder (deco cylinder will be dropped off at appropriate depth) - Depth MAX 130ft - dive turns at thirds. NTEC gear config must be used by students and instructor. NO Sidemount / No-mount allowed.

Cave3: classroom 6 hours / 3 dives IN ADDITION, 1 open water skills development dive, 2 MULTI STAGE DPV cave dives Students must have at minimum: 140cf backgas (not used in 1/3 rule calculations) only used in emergency, 150cf of stage bottom gas, and 200% of necessary deco gas. min Calculations on gas are for the highest consumption rate member on the team. (deco cylinder will be dropped off at appropriate depth) - No dive conducted in portion of cave that student has not already swam - Must be full TRIMIX certified - dive turns at thirds. NTEC gear config must be used by students and instructor. NO Sidemount / No-mount allowed.

Hope this helps, NAUI classes are not warm and fuzzy, they are designed to keep your butt alive. We care about our divers.

Safe diving

 

[cinder4320]

...(even if our agency allows it - ie, TDI Intro - which allows doubles, although not accepted by Ginnie - DUMB!).

So does your Intro card not state "doubles" or does Ginnie not allow TDI Intro divers to dive doubles regardless of what the card says?

I have IANTD Intro and our card specifically says in Doubles. I don't have a specific permission slip just the card that states doubles on it. I don't know how else and agency would differentiate if the standards allow but don't require doubles.

I imagine my card should be no problem for Ginnie (although I have not tried it yet).

Miranda

 

[scubafool]

A good discussion going here, but I wonder if the thread shouldn't be split?

 

[TSandM]

I took TDI cavern and Intro in doubles. Am I not going to be allowed to dive them at Ginnie?

 

[scubafool]

I took TDI cavern and Intro in doubles. Am I not going to be allowed to dive them at Ginnie?

Was your class ONLY TDI, or was it TDI and NACD or TDI and NSS/CDS?

I have a TDI Intro card and a NACD Intro card. The TDI card didn't seem to help the last time I was at Ginnie, and it took a bit of tenacity on mine and my buddy's part (same certs) to get our NACD doubles waiver recognized.

I would DEFINITELY get in touch with your instructor and see if you can get some type of paperwork on this. I know from personal experience the frustration of being at Ginnie and not being able to dive because they won't let you dive doubles on a NACD Intro card alone.