Cave training with Harry Averill? Experiences?

[Cave Diver]

Has it occurred to anyone that we have absolutely no credible information that this particular instructor is, in fact, a diabetic, and that it may well be slander (and is at the very least extremely unfair) to continue to discuss this as fact when it may not be?
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As a physician, I am not at all sure that all diabetes is a complete contraindication to overhead diving, or perhaps even to teaching. Diabetes is a disease with a very wide spectrum of manifestations, ranging from mild blood sugar elevations to life-threatening ketoacidosis. Anyone with a history of significant hypoglycemia or whose glycemic control is brittle shouldn't be diving, period, let alone in an overhead. But there are a lot of folks with mild glucose elevations who are on mild medications like metformin, and probably don't present any greater risk underwater than the average, overweight smoker in his 50's (which matches a lot of the folks I saw cave diving in Florida!)

BTW, I agree with Harry -- unresponsive and not breathing in a cave? I park you for the recovery divers. Breathing is a whole different story.

I agree with Lynne.

Is there any hard or first hand evidence that this instructor has contraindications to teaching? Or is it mostly my buddy heard from his cousin type stuff?

Responsibility swings both ways. I think we have a responsibility to call unsafe practices to light, but at the same time we have a responsibility to make sure we're repeating factual information as well.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

I have been around Harry a few times and never heard anyone mention a health condition. However what the student was told does sound like something Harry would say. If a cave instructor told me that, hell if a buddy told me that I would call the dive right then and there. If you know there is a possibility you or your buddy has a health issue the dive just isnt worth it. And mentioning it would tell me something isnt right.

Like most everyone else, if im not breathing, get yourself to safety and leave me. If I am breathing, im gonna haunt you if you leave me

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

I have been around Harry a few times and never heard anyone mention a health condition.

I have worked with Harry a lot both in & out of the water. We have even done a body recovery together. Never a mention of diabetes or any other health issues other than him being an old phart!!

Making accusations of this nature on a public forum is unacceptable to me. I think the post should be deleted.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

I have worked with Harry a lot both in & out of the water. We have even done a body recovery together. Never a mention of diabetes or any other health issues other than him being an old phart!!

Making accusations of this nature on a public forum is unacceptable to me. I think the post should be deleted.

I agree. Not our concern unless we are diving together.

 

[LiteHedded]

I heard it form someone that heard it from someone

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

I heard it form someone that heard it from someone

yes indeed & thats the way it goes. I accept your humor with that statement, however the offending comments above do damage Harry's reputation in an unsubstantiated manner. I hope I am not the only one who sees the injustice done to Harry here.

 

[Tegg]

Unless there is solid evidence to back up the claim, the posts on medical concerns are unwarranted.

My opinion of cave instructors willing to teach "zero to hero" courses to anyone (highly skilled OW or not) is not a good one, but that is not a new opinion in the cave diving community.

 

[LiteHedded]

can't someone just ask the guy if he has diabeetus or not?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

yes indeed & thats the way it goes. I accept your humor with that statement, however the offending comments above do damage Harry's reputation in an unsubstantiated manner. I hope I am not the only one who sees the injustice done to Harry here.

You're not the only one. I don't even know the guy, and this thread made me really uncomfortable in terms of how willing some folks have been to damamage his reputation.

Maybe it's because I'm an old phart ... but I didn't see anything wrong with Harry's comment to his students. As an instructor, I'd way rather make a statement like that than assume that my students would make the correct decision without being told. And hey ... any of us can have something unexpected happen to us at any time. That's just life ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

My opinion of cave instructors willing to teach "zero to hero" courses to anyone (highly skilled OW or not) is not a good one, but that is not a new opinion in the cave diving community.

As someone who attempted the "zero to hero" route, I guess I have a different opinion. I went into it with well over 2,000 dives ... trimix and wreck penetration training and experience ... and perhaps more confidence than was warranted. What I learned was there's a big difference between taking the course and passing it.

I guess it's less important to me which classes you take than it is that you choose an instructor who ain't gonna pass you until they're satisfied you've earned the card ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)