Cave Divers and Attitude

[Karl_in_Calif]

Here is a cave divers story you might like to hear.

This was told to me by my physician. He is a D.A.N. participating physician, and he goes to D.A.N. annual meetings where they talk about scuba medicine and all that.

[Dr. Vikengo, you might like this story too!]

D.A.N. does not publish all scuba related injuries. Some of them are too morbid. Others of them are too funny. I guess. This one is too funny.

A scuba diver was rushed to a hospital with a broken leg and two broken arms that he had suffered while scuba diving. Since these were scuba related injuries, it was reported to D.A.N.

What had happened is that this diver was swimming around underwater, alone, and he saw two cave divers. The cave divers went into a cave, with all their tech gear and reels, and the lone scuba diver followed them in.

Half way in, the lone diver discovered he was OOA, and he swam up to the cave divers and signalled to them that he was OOA and needed to air-share.

The cave divers stopped what they were doing, and egressed from the cave, with the OOA diver with them, then all 3 surfaced together, and once on the surface they beat the living crap out of the lone diver, broke both his arms and one of his legs.

Now, it all boils down to this:

Cave divers are different. They have a different attitude about diving. They carry two of everything with them when they go into a cave. Two tanks (at least). Two regulators (at least). Two knives (at least). Two lights (three is more common today). Two watches (this is an old quote ... now cavers use computers in gauge mode not watches). Cave divers only get one chance to do it right, the first time, when they are in a cave.

 

[crawford]

Most of the cave divers I've met were very humble, usually much more so than divers at a lower skill level who are real impressed with themselves because of they are in a DM class or something.

I showed up at a local quarry one saturday and needed a buddy. There was a guy standing at the fill station that said he would dive with me, so we did a couple dives. It wasn't until I saw him frog kicking that I figured out he was a caver. The more I pulled from the guy, the more I learned about him (instructor, experienced cave diver, etc.). Of course when I saw his white van filled to the gills with equipment it was a no brainer. This has been my experience with most cavers, but I've heard about the ego junkies as well. That's one example, but most of my experience with cave divers was that they had a lot to brag about, but you had to pull that info from them.

I think you have to not confuse the "seriousness" that cave divers have....and must have, with ego. Cave divers are pretty serious because it's the nature of what they do, because the consequences are suffering a miserable death somewhere in the back of a dark cave.

In fact, I actually prefere cavers, they really know what they are talking about, and in most cases (not all of course) are pretty grounded and decent.

 

[Bob3]

I've noticed that a lot of cave divers seem to have a certain negative attitude toward non-divers and toward non-cave divers.

You should see the attitude some commercial divers have towards scuba divers. "If you ain't Deep Sea, you ain't ****".

 

[pipedope]

We even get attitude from offshore, oil patch divers toward us lowely 'inland' commercial divers.ut:

 

[Karl_in_Calif]

Most of the cave divers I have met ... hmm ... no, make that .... all of the cave divers I have met, have been total A-holes.

On the other hand, ALL of the commercial divers that I have met have been very humble men. Courageous, powerful, and humble.

A close friend of mine owns a scuba store, and he is an X-commercial diver, an x-pipedope like PipeDope.

I would think that the oil rig divers have the hardest jobs in scuba or surface supplied diving. If anyone deserves to have attitude, they do.

It reminds me of a question I have for both of you, BOB3 & PIPEDOPE:

The NOAA Diving Manual speaks of 400 fsw as the cut-off for scuba and the beginning of surface-supplied. In other words, NO SCUBA deeper than 400 fsw.

Is that right, in the real world of commercial diving?

 

[pipedope]

In commercial diving you only use SCUBA when you can't use surface supplied.

SCUBA is very rare in commercial diving these days.

 

[GDI]

Karl_in_Calif once bubbled...
Here is a cave divers story you might like to hear.


The cave divers stopped what they were doing, and egressed from the cave, with the OOA diver with them, then all 3 surfaced together, and once on the surface they beat the living crap out of the lone diver, broke both his arms and one of his legs.

:doctor: I have heard this type of folk lore before

Cave divers are not bad people, they just have a higher level of concern for diver safety then most other divers. those that come across as arogant and use folk lore like above do no justice to this part of the sport of scuba diving

 

[DFC5343]

Bob3 once bubbled...
You should see the attitude some commercial divers have towards scuba divers. "If you ain't Deep Sea, you ain't ****".

HOOYAH on dat...but hey...all animals tolerate the young ones.

BTW...the term for a SCUBA diver is tubesucker Navy speak.


As far as cave diving goes...these guys do something special and have the attitude to boot. I can say diving in general breeds the mindset. I for one have done some wild water work myself but would drink a beer with any diver that could keep up. Yeah, get a few of us mil types together you would be somewhat outta place but don't feel bad...jock up and jump in!

 

[Cave Diver]

aujax once bubbled...
Hi,

I don't mean any disrespect by this, but, I've noticed that a lot of cave divers seem to have a certain negative attitude toward non-divers and toward non-cave divers. I imagine this might be to discourage open-water divers from getting themselves hurt by going into caves or to discourage other people from getting into cave diving as locations can be pretty crowded as it is. It also occured to me that cave diversmay just be a bit egotistical. Can anyone enlighten me as to this aspect of the specialty? Again, no disrespect intended.

Hi aujax,

What you may be experiencing is "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" attitude.

You may find that some cavers are reluctant to talk too much about it to a non-caver. That's not necessarily unfriendliness or an attitude that they are better than anyone else. I think it's often meant as a discouragement to keep someone without proper training from going in "just a little to see."

I was at a dive site this weekend and while we were all sitting around talking someone mentioned the following story:

He pulled up to a popular dive site and saw several police cars parked down by the water's edge and equipment strewn all over the ground. His first thought is "oh great, another body recovery, I wonder how come I didnt get a call?"

Turns out that the local PD was just teaching an OW class.

A lot of the cavers I know have participated in body recoveries from a cave. I've seen reports and heard stories about this and its not pleasant.

Because of this, certain questions tend to "put off" cavedivers:

How far does it go? How many lights do you use? How deep is it?

Questions like these raise immediate concerns that someone is tempted just to "try" it.

Then there are those people who think cave divers are absolutely nuts. I cant tell you how many times I've gotten the "OMG WHY would you want to do something like that?"

All of these factors may combine to give the impression you've encountered.

Questions that you may want to consider asking to foster a conversation might include:

What made you decide to get into cave diving?
If I was interested in learning, what would the first step be?
Who would you suggest for training?

Hope this helps you some.

 

[chickdiver]

A bit of historical info. Cave Diving agencies have never promoted their training. In order to get in a class- you have to bug a lot of people and ask a lot of questions. We do this to discourage those who don't really WANT it. Cave Divers tend to put off divers a lot becuase of this.

As for military divers- I have a ton of EOD guys that are friends- they think I am nuts. The ones who have taken training from me also repsect my knowledge and ability- ome of the coolest guys I know.