Cave diver drowns - Jackson Blue Springs, Florida

[Superlyte27]

I still struggle to understand why people continue to do highly risky cave diving (which arguably is the most risky of all sectors of recreational diving) when nobody has ever come back from a cave dive and said "wow that was a beautiful reef", or "those critters were amazing" or "what an awesome wreck" - but each to their own.

I never understood people who thought reef or critters were amazing. Big deal. Can see it from the comfort of my living room. But imagine being 1 of less than 10 people to ever be in a single spot on the planet. I’ve been to places on this earth where more people have been on the moon or in space than where I’ve been underwater. That’s the appeal, at least one of them.

 

[Sevenrider860]

No other pertinent info?

Being stuck doesn’t make you bail out and only breath one tank, my guy.

Super secret squirrel tunnel….ridiculous.

My understanding is that the Sidewinder counterlung is fitted between the diver’s back and the sidemount harness. I could imagine that if the restriction was so tight that one became stuck, it could have compressed that countering to the point it could not inflate. So you bail out to the the bungied regulator. Perhaps the second regulator on the other other cylinder was located in a position that made it in accessible to reach?

 

[cerich]

My understanding is that the Sidewinder counterlung is fitted between the diver’s back and the sidemount harness. I could imagine that if the restriction was so tight that one became stuck, it could have compressed that countering to the point it could not inflate. So you bail out to the the bungied regulator. Perhaps the second regulator on the other other cylinder was located in a position that made it in accessible to reach?

very unlikely

 

[Biotech Diver]

Perhaps the second regulator on the other other cylinder was located in a position that made it in accessible to reach?

This is the question I had too.

What I've learned from these threads is that I have no desire to dive in caves. I've also learned that I'm no longer interested in rebreathers. I admire those that do dive caves and use CCR, but my tolerance for risk has gone down the older I get.

 

[PfcAJ]

Also, as a member of a group that has worked for 20 years plus to keep most cave divers out of the Woodville Karst, sure you want to talk about super secret squirrel stuff?

Repeating more nonsense. Disappointing. But not unexpected.

 

[RedSeaDiver2]

I never understood people who thought reef or critters were amazing. Big deal. Can see it from the comfort of my living room. But imagine being 1 of less than 10 people to ever be in a single spot on the planet. I’ve been to places on this earth where more people have been on the moon or in space than where I’ve been underwater. That’s the appeal, at least one of them.

I'm one of three people on the planet to have ever dived a particular 2000-year-old wreck

 

[Germie]

I don't know if the dive was still able to use the MAV of the sidewinder, but remember it is an mCCR. So you have to add oxygen manually. If there is stress, the orifice can provide too less oxygent and then you will need the mav.
I don't know if this was a reason to bo or not. But to bo you have to be able to catch the regulators of your bo cylinders. In a very narrow cave, this can be hard too. Especially if the viz is also zero.
So is this restriction so long and narrow that there is a chance you cannot reach things anymore?

6 or 7 years ago I did a solo diving in a cave with a very small entrance. It was my first dive in that cave, and people said, you only have to push the left tank in front of you. So I did. As soon as I was 3 meter under water, the viz turned into zero and I was able to attach my reel from surface to the mainline. But I was also stucked due to the right cylinder. Happely I did not attach the richt cylinder at the back, I only had the valve under the bungee. While I was trying to get in, my mainlight went out. So I must have hit the offbutton/handle of my cannister with the gravel or something. I was in complete darkness. Also I was not able to reach my backuplights. Yes, I could touch 1 d-ring, but it was too narrow to get it from a d-ring. I decided to take the regulator of my right cylinder, moved a little bit so the bungee was off the valve and wiggled myself further with the regulator in my hand, the left cylinder in front of me and the right cylinder somewhere behind me, but there was happely a 2.10m longhose on it. So after the restriction, I could pull the cylinder back to mee. I also could turn the backuplight on. Then I looked at the mainlight and there was gravel between the switch. I kicked that out with my knive, attached the cylinders to me again and then I found out that the right regulator was giving water. So I had to take the cap of under water, saw it was full of gravel, cleaned it, and could go further in the cave which had really good viz. The way out I dropped both tanks in front of me, not attached to anything. So there was nothing anymore that made the restriction too small. But in here I had several smaller failures that are solvable by staying calm. I have been in that cave several times since then, and yes, you can do it with only 1 tank in front, but only if the entrance is quite wide, not always.
It is the same as the Truffe cave in France, most times you will be able to get in with a twin12, but sometimes not.
And also the size of your body counts. I have tried to get in a cave that is mostly dry caving, but you only need a 3 liter tank to swim the 5m under water. I did not fit in. I have tried and tried, but I was not able to get in. A smaller man could get in, but it was also hard for him. So if people will say it fits, it maybe will not fit for everyone. Also a thing to think about.

And there are cave accidents or incidents known where nobody made a mistake. Just there was bad luck. I have taken divers out of a cave (happely alive as they found an airbell) because another diver broke the line on the way out in zero viz. But he did not know at that time. He realised when the divers did not came out of the cave again. Then there was panic at the surface by a diver who tried to do freediving in freezing cold water to try to find the other divers. So trained in cave diving, did not do anything wrong, but only felt 1 time he was somewhere stucked with a fin, kicked, was free again and then when others were not coming out realised maybe he had broken the line which was true. I was the only person with a ccr onside, took the half empty cylinders of that diver as extra, and started searching. Found the divers in an airbell in an inflow tunnel. They were only 6-7 minutes from the exit, but there was no line going to the exit anymore. Due to really zero viz I took 1 diver out first with touch contact. All went out without problems. I only pee-ed in my drysuit. Then after the dive when all cylinders must go back to the car, one of the divers did it in such a hurry in the heat, he was ill in the evening and the next day. No decoproblems, but just the heat, stress, etc. This example shows that even if you are trained or experienced, you can make strange decisions when you are in stress.

And remember, every human can panic. More trained people are less prone to panic, but panic can happen in every diver. Also in me or any other here on the forum.

And I am a cavediver, but also love wrecks and reefs. I also have done combinations, the entrance of a cave was in the sea, so we did a cave dive first and drained the tanks in shallow in the sea. Also I like wrecks, and even with a wreckdive things can go wrong. Due to group pressure I almost died in a wreck 12 years ago. But I always say now: duckweed will never die.

 

[Tribal]

I'm one of three people on the planet to have ever dived a particular 2000-year-old wreck

The difference is that at some point more people have seen the ship and traveled with it.
People like different things. Some like reefs some like rocks, do you know that there are people who don’t even like to dive?

 

[The Chairman]

It's often been said that you need experience, but you only get that experience from making bad judgements. It's easy to give in to the lure of our own hubris, especially when hit with a bit of narcosis. Look at the number of posters claiming, "I was only the xth person to be here". Many of us want or need to feel special by doing something only a few have done. Add to that the spatial distortion being underwater offers as things look larger and closer, and it's a recipe for making mistakes. Again, add narcosis to that phenomenon, and things can go sideways pretty darn quickly. We are all afflicted by this to one degree or another.

Trying to armchair dive the incident or making assumptions about the divers is pretty effing callous at this point. I say this during shiva, but it applies after as well. make no doubt about it, more than one life was destroyed by this and we should approach this with at least a modicum of respect for those souls. The facts are pretty slim and some are extrapolating and filling in the blanks with such authority that you would think they were there, or that they knew the divers intimately. Neither is true and I would suggest that if you don't have new FACTS to add, that maybe silence is golden.

However, to those thinking that people are drawn to these threads like vultures, I would suggest that you're absolutely wrong. Diving and caving is a passion for many of us. We often see such incidents and think "that could have been me!" Consequently, we try to parse any possible lessons we can so we don't make the same mistakes. While some may use this to express discontent, anger, or simply to pontificate, none of us want to die. We're here mostly to learn how to keep living.

 

[berndo]

We're here mostly to learn how to keep living.

Really? There was a very long thread (full of people who never cave dived) about the Roaring River accident. Can you tell me what you have learned from that or from some other accident thread? Anything specific and anything you couldn't have learned from x other accidents and reports we've had in the past?
It's not a trick question, I would actually like to know?