Cave conservation

[Dive-aholic]

I guess now I know why the visibility in downstream was so bad today! After taking a peak into it last week, I thought it was finally time to get over on that side. I just did a quick 300' scooter downstream after my upstream dive last week and saw about 20' of visibility. Today, I scootered back to the 2000' marker and saw 5-20' of visibility, mostly 5'. I finally gave up on it clearing up and turned the dive. Fortunately, off the main passage it was clear so I was able to salvage the dive with a nice little swim several hundred feet back into a sidemount passage.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

These individuals would tear the cave up no matter what configuration. All I was saying is that gear really shouldn't even play a role in the discussion. If that wasn't the intention for your original post, please accept my apologies.

That being said, I'd suggest you post names on forums and notify Ed. If certain individuals are are intentionally damaging caves, I really think we should call them out, ask Ed not to rent them boats, ask the NSS-CDS to put them on a "blacklist" for sites they own, and notify guided dives such as Hart Springs, Dipolar, etc.

Well gear does play a role cause there is a right tool for the job if they are determined to go through there. However you are probably right that these guys would probably cause damage anyway. The whole thing makes me go BLAH!! Names have been given out to someone, I'm sure they will follow up on this.

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

NSS-CDS, NACD, TDI, PADI-DSAT, and IANTD cavern/cave programs all stress the importance and value of cave conservation in their cavern and cave programs.

Many things are taught, and many of the things taught are routinely ignored by a few graduates of these classes after the class is over.

 

[karstdvr]

This region is sure getting a blackeye. There is one thread on a different forum about some bones being removed from a cave,and this thread about some people digging. There was once a time that the Jackson County,and close surrounding area,hated cave divers and they were thought of as a problem. For the longest time Jackson Blue was closed,and some hard work of some dedicated people got it open. The attitude has changed,and we are welcome,and wanted,but this can change if the feeling is that outsiders are destroying their precious resource. Please remember that cave diving isn't a right,it is a privledge,and this privledge is dependent on our relationship with the landowners. There is a book titled,"Everything I Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarten",we need to reinforce the lesson that if you don't take care of it,you will lose it.

 

[Dive-aholic]

NSS-CDS, NACD, TDI, PADI-DSAT, and IANTD cavern/cave programs all stress the importance and value of cave conservation in their cavern and cave programs.

Many things are taught, and many of the things taught are routinely ignored by a few graduates of these classes after the class is over.

Does GUE...or the WKPP...

 

[ucfdiver]

Does GUE...or the WKPP...

For what it's worth, a good friend of mine who has realistically helped me as much as anyone else in diving always mentions the best places to drop stages and/or DPV's to lessen impact on the cave if it's an area that she's been to and I have not. She's Tech 1/Cave 2/DPV through Tyler Moon back when he taught for GUE. Lynne and AJ both post here regularly and recently took David Rhea's C2 course, they could comment more I'm sure. Might be a good topic for PM.

Chapter 10 of the GUE Cave manual is all about conservation of formations, wildlife and landowner relations. If you're interested in reading what they say, PM me and I'll let you read my copy.

There ARE agencies out there still in existence started by people who wrote a book containing the story of how they dug out Friedmans sink. I have personally sat in a NACD course where the instructor taught the "Little River Leap" which involved kicking and pulling off the walls through the "throat" section of the cave. Recent president of one of the two big agencies to be exact.

 

[TSandM]

I can tell you that Danny Riordan constantly critiqued our propulsion decisions -- I can hear his voice even now: "The time to switch your kick is BEFORE you've hit something!" Fred gave me lots of good tips for how to orient my body to do steep slopes without dropping my knees in the silt. When David had us do the up and down slits in Twin, he prefaced it by a long discussion of how he wanted to see us negotiate them without disturbing any of the silt on the walls (which we didn't do very well). None of those instructors addressed digging, because I don't think it ever occurred to them that we would do it . . . and it certainly never occurred to ME as something I could or should do.

There may be GUE-trained divers out there who are not being mindful of cave conservation, but it isn't because their training either condoned it or recommended it. What people do after their training is not always the fault of their instructor, as you well know, Rob.

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

There may be GUE trained divers out there who are not being mindful of cave conservation, but it isn't because their training either condoned it or recommended it. What people do after their training is not always the fault of their instructor......

You can substitute any training agency with the letters in RED above.

 

[Dive-aholic]

Sorry, I guess I should have made my sarcasm more clear. I was hinting at who did this.

 

[ucfdiver]

Sorry, I guess I should have made my sarcasm more clear. I was hinting at who did this.

Why don't you just use a name? I think it's a bit unfair to sarcastically imply a certain group is doing it when the majority of individuals in that group are nothing like this, do you not?