Cave certs explained....

[ucfdiver]

Would a lost buddy search be assimilated to a non permitted procedure like a jump for an intro cave student?

BTW, thank you for this list, it brings perspective to the cave diving cursus.

The most important skill as a cave diver is to think on your feet, I just talked to InkDiver yesterday on his way back from his intro class (he beat me to taking the class) and he said this was stressed over and over and over, more than anything else. He mentioned his instructor asked what would YOU do in _______ situation. If your best friend was in a burning building that you had a 50/50 chance of dying or saving him if you went in, would you do it? Hopefully things like this never happen with good selection of dive partners, but if they do, the answer isn't going to be black and white.

I've known people to take cavern in singles and then switch to doubles later, is this "against the rules" as far as anyone knows?

Thanks!

Danny

No. My intro to cave instructor requires a single tank with an H/Y valve for the class, and then suggests a few dives at the intro level before switching to doubles. Some instructors believe you should get used to doubles before cavern if you know you want to go to full cave. Both have logical reasons behind their rules, and I'm not going to say either one is right or wrong. I'd prefer using doubles earlier in the training myself, but my instructor doesn't see it that way, and I'm being trained by him, so I'll follow his rules.

Doesn't intro have a pentration distance limitation? I also thought no Ts that would require a navigation decision.

The workbook states that distance is no concern. It used to be 1200ft, or maybe it's been changed since the workbook was published, I don't know. I'd assume the no decompression limit would prevent going much over 1200ft in FL caves due to depth, but I really don't know about places with shallow caves like mexico.

The impression I got in FL on my intro cave course was that in the interim between full or apprentice cave, you can't dive doubles in places like Ginnie unless you have a letter from your instuctor giving you permission to dive doubles for training purposes, so in effect the cert card is not the most limiting factor.

I guess Ginnie believes people have died from having too much gas.

 

[jimdiverman]

The workbook states that distance is no concern. It used to be 1200ft, or maybe it's been changed since the workbook was published, I don't know. I'd assume the no decompression limit would prevent going much over 1200ft in FL caves due to depth, but I really don't know about places with shallow caves like mexico.

Different agencies have different policies regarding penetration distances and carrying doubles and at what levels. Your instructor will go through those with you during your training.

I guess Ginnie believes people have died from having too much gas.

I fail to see the humor in this...

 

[mania]

We had a long discussion with Ginnie staff when I was there lately. Finally they accepted letter form GDI, but it was not easy.


Despite the fact I can accept their point I still have problem agreeing.

Mania

 

[TSandM]

Ginnie will let you dive doubles on a TDI Intro cert now.

 

[cinder4320]

Ginnie will also let you in with an IANTD Intro card that states you were trained in doubles.

The first time we tried to go there we knew of all the issues other had, showed our cards, specifically said they stated trained in doubles, and were told we couldn't dive. The girl at the counter said "You have to be trained in doubles and have permission to dive them." To which we once again stated our cards specifically said we were trained in doubles and gave us permission. She didn't think they'd let us in which made no sense since we had the needed "proof" but proceeded to call her manager to ask. The manager said "No problem." The next time we returned we related the story of before and the girl on duty remembered and it was no problem.

So be prepared to argue a bit even if you have the letter/cert. card that says doubles.

Miranda

 

[wedivebc]

The workbook states that distance is no concern. It used to be 1200ft, or maybe it's been changed since the workbook was published, I don't know. I'd assume the no decompression limit would prevent going much over 1200ft in FL caves due to depth, but I really don't know about places with shallow caves like mexico.

We wanted to take some intro friends out to see the monster room at Chac Mool but were told they could not go since there was a T to pass and it was too far (I thought 1500ft but I could be wrong). They were trained IANTD if that makes any difference.

 

[TSandM]

I don't have the IANTD book, but I have the GUE, TDI, NACD and NSS-CDS materials, and they all limit penetration on gas, not distance. I've had friends turn dives in Mexico because they became uncomfortable with the distance, though.

It IS interesting, the difference in limits among the agencies. Some limit Intro divers to 6ths, others permit thirds; some permit minor restrictions and other permit none. Some allow a single navigation decision, NAUI I believe permits two, TDI allows none (mainline only). NACD does not permit Intro divers to dive doubles without a waiver from their instructor, which is time-limited. I believe they are the only agency that does that.

 

[ianr33]

IMHO the whole single/doubles thing at intro is a mess. Really cant blame somwhere like Ginnie for not being up to date on the limits of every agency.

I found the best solution was to do Full Cave. Now I can make my own decisions rather than letting the training agency make them for me

 

[ianr33]

.

Intro to Cave-
1- Main line penetration only. No jumps, gaps, circuits, or traverses.

How about a circuit on a continuous goldline? (e.g. Jackson Blue) Is that allowed?

The problem with rules in diving is that they can not cover every possible situation and ultimately it is up to the diver to decide what is reasonable and what is not.

 

[limeyx]

How about a circuit on a continuous goldline? (e.g. Jackson Blue) Is that allowed?

The problem with rules in diving is that they can not cover every possible situation and ultimately it is up to the diver to decide what is reasonable and what is not.

Of course, the problem with that is that not all beginning divers can make those decisions in a sensible/safe way as they dont yet know what they dont know, so rules were invented to "help"

IMO for anyone to be certified to dive 1/3's, a full blind OOA gas sharing drill needs to be done at full (1/3) penetration, then they can make a decision as to how safe it is to dive 1/3's -- just talking about it on the Internet may sound safe and with plenty of cushion, but I am betting trying it in the water will be somewhat more interesting.