Cave Certs Expiration

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Caves haven't changed since the 70's and the required training and experience to safely explore them hasn't decreased due to anything but pompous bluff and money. We quite clearly see the damage the reduction in dive training in general has done to the sport. While there are always exceptions most folks aren't going to become quality divers if the standards continue to deteriorate. If trying to cram more training into less time to satisfy the instant gratification generations is your idea of progress have at it. I'm already certified.
 
So I guess overall the Nacd and Cds are turning out better divers than GUE because they have a 4 step program vs a 3 step one. I am sorry but I disagree. Would you like me to post some YouTube videos of Cds full cave divers that can't even frog kick?
 
So I guess overall the Nacd and Cds are turning out better divers than GUE because they have a 4 step program vs a 3 step one. I am sorry but I disagree. Would you like me to post some YouTube videos of Cds full cave divers that can't even frog kick?
I am really confused as to where this came from in this thread. In fact, I am really confused about what a lot of people are saying. I guess I need a road map showing the thought path.
 
So I guess overall the Nacd and Cds are turning out better divers than GUE because they have a 4 step program vs a 3 step one. I am sorry but I disagree. Would you like me to post some YouTube videos of Cds full cave divers that can't even frog kick?
I specifically stated that all agencies are having this problem. You won't be making improvements by reducing the amount of training required to reach this half a certification you two are looking for.
 
I specifically stated that all agencies are having this problem. You won't be making improvements by reducing the amount of training required to reach this half a certification you two are looking for.

Since you don't like the GUE model that I and many others seem to think is turning out better divers overall than any other agency what do you think is the solution?
 
Since you don't like the GUE model that I and many others seem to think is turning out better divers overall than any other agency what do you think is the solution?


Usually higher standards and better instructors turn out better students. I think instructer peer review is a good start. You said it yourself, there are cave divers out there that can't even frog kick. They didn't issue that card to themselves. An instructor let them slide with that nonsense.
 
.... An instructor let them slide with that nonsense.

Do you really think that is the case? I suspect its more likely (or common) that a certified diver gets complacent, rusty or just lazy and reverts back to bad technique. I don't know how you fault an instructor for bad technique months, or years after a card has been issued. **Unless you have first hand accounts of an instructor 'passing trash' and not demanding proper skills at the point of certification. ..Maybe this has happened, but I find it hard to believe its common.
 
Yes it happens. There are instructors that can't do a proper frog kick. Now the only cave diver I give a pass on not frog kicking properly is Paul Deloach. It wasn't taught when he started cave diving.
 
I did iantd and they issued a perminate cavern card.
 
Unless iantd has changed over teh past 5 years, their intermediate certs do not expire like other agencies.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/
http://cavediveflorida.com/Rum_House.htm

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