Cave Certs Expiration

[Imbodie]

Hooray,,a POST where YOU didn't HAVE to SHOUT at US to GET across YOUR point.

SHOUTING IMPLIES ALL WORDS CAPITALIZED.... I was just EMPHASIZING specific words... I can always do it with color if you would rather?

 

[PfcAJ]

SHOUTING IMPLIES ALL WORDS CAPITALIZED.... I was just EMPHASIZING specific words... I can always do it with color if you would rather?

Capitalized words imply shouting.

In this thread we've learned how manifolds work, math works, and how English works. Fun!

 

[Imbodie]

Capitalized words imply shouting.

In this thread we've learned how manifolds work, math works, and how English works. Fun!

it is all about education... next we'll learn the right way to use leading periods...

Everyone keeps trying to change the subject away from standardizing training, choosing to talk about math, engineering and well the proper use of english in an internet world. Yet no one wants to produce numbers showing that 3rds across the board is a bad idea. Did you notice I did not capitalize the word "English" ??

 

[kensuf]

The subject wasn't about "standardizing training." The subject of this thread was expiring certifications.

 

[Imbodie]

The subject wasn't about "standardizing training." The subject of this thread was expiring certifications.

Which is a part of standardization.... and also why I chose NAUI...(it is proper to capitalize the condensed letters of an organization)
Really did not mean to hijack the thread but it was a valid question that does relate to some organizations that DID (oops I forgot to use colors) have expiring certs and for some reason changed them... If no one can cite an instance(preferably more than just one) of a new diver incident where 3rds was the issue... where is the safety concern?

 

[karstdvr]

it is all about education... next we'll learn the right way to use leading periods...

Everyone keeps trying to change the subject away from standardizing training, choosing to talk about math, engineering and well the proper use of english in an internet world. Yet no one wants to produce numbers showing that 3rds across the board is a bad idea. Did you notice I did not capitalize the word "English" ??

It is all about a cogent discussion. The point was made many postings ago,but repeating the same thing over with CAPITALS won't drive it home faster. Actually you more likely have diluted your stance and people have diminished your credibility. Say it once, and say it well,and perhaps provide clarification if needed.

 

[victorzamora]

If I as a NAUI Cave1 diver have by my standards access to 1/3 of my breathing gas for penetration (whether or not I use the full 1/3 of it) Then why are equivalent certifications limited to 1/6 of their available breathing gas??

I don't think there are, Tim. Cave 1 is considered equivalent(ish) to Apprentice Cave...which is thirds for penetration.

 

[victorzamora]

If no one can cite an instance(preferably more than just one) of a new diver incident where 3rds was the issue... where is the safety concern?

Tim, my take on it is similar to what a cave instructor told me: Cards have limits that reflect the amount of training a diver received. A cert like Intro, which is usually achieved with 4 days of training (one of which is often mostly OW and gear config). Sixths is the limit, along with no navigational decisions or deco, to allow divers to practice their skills, enjoy their diving, dive some caves, and do so in a safe manner. Sixths was decided upon not simply to increase the conservatism of a dive, but to reduce the stress placed on a diver during a dive. Increased conservatism, less distance from the exit, no navigational decisions, no deco.....all of those limits reduce a diver's stress level, and any stress reduction is an increase in safety.

Tom and I argue about what's better: the NAUI way or the CDS way (no offense meant here, just picking agencies for comparison). His point, and I get it, is that Cave1 is a single class that allows many/most cave divers to do pretty much all the diving they could want. Many people never want to get into exploration, more than 2 nav decisions, scooters, stages, etc. There's not that pressure to progress like there is with an Apprentice cert (expiring or not). I really used the time between Intro and Apprentice to practice and prepare. I never violated sixths or no nav decisions while Intro, but I know I would've been diving to thirds had I gotten Cave1. Intro gave me time to practice, in a cave, and it let me enjoy the caves at that level before I moved on.

I think the pressure to "move on" is something that's real and I haven't seen discussed yet. I haven't ever had the urge to ask a Cave1 diver when they were going to "finish up" and get their "real cert" (purposefully inflammatory). However, it's the question I always hear (and want to ask) when I hear someone is "just" Intro or Apprentice. I know when I had my Intro cert I got those questions.

 

[Imbodie]

It is all about a cogent discussion. The point was made many postings ago,but repeating the same thing over with CAPITALS won't drive it home faster. Actually you more likely have diluted your stance and people have diminished your credibility. Say it once, and say it well,and perhaps provide clarification if needed.

Kelly, I don't have any credibility to start with. I am a Cave1 certified diver with 25 dives to his name...
But on that note, I don't even know how to phrase my statements/questions half the time... where the conversations digress is when people go on the attack when they can't give a simple answer in response to a question. I, being one that has no credibility to begin with will just respond because its my nature.

When I ask a question, which is how this started and snowballed , it is because I would like a valid response that is backed up by something near to fact.

 

[Imbodie]

I don't think there are, Tim. Cave 1 is considered equivalent(ish) to Apprentice Cave...which is thirds for penetration.

BOY that would have solved a LOT of issues had someone said that to begin with.