Can someone please explain this oddity to me?

[ScubaSista]

I haven't read all of the posts, so maybe this was asked already, but are you mixing up MSD with Divemaster training?

 

[Thalassamania]

I haven't read all of the posts, so maybe this was asked already, but are you mixing up MSD with Divemaster training?

If you find the time to read the thread you will see that no one is confusing MSD and DM.

 

[DandyDon]

If you find the time to read the thread you will see that no one is confusing MSD and DM.

I think the OP did.

For the possible benefit of anyone who happens to wonder what that meant - and some ppl do read threads this far even after they get as boring as this one: Some people confuse the generic titles of Master Scuba Diver/MSD and Dive Master/DM.

Master Diver is largely a card buying title, meaning very little. I have been offered discounts by Padi Insts of paying their costs on the 5 or 6 cards beyond Rescue to have mine. Didn't see any point - means little, respected little.

Dive Master is the first professional level in Padi, I believe - usually reflecting much more in training, experience, accomplishments, etc. Not necessarily, as DM can be earned in simple quarry diving only, producing a DM who may be a stumbling novice on & from an sea going boat, and I've dived with a few DMs who just did not have what it should take to become one, but - this is generally a more accomplished title.

Yet, much can vary with different agencies, instructors, and divers. I've even know accomplished divers who skipped the swimming test of OW, or talked their way around it - and became certified while still non-swimmers without neoprene and fines. :11:

How did that sound...??

 

[markr]

If you find the time to read the thread you will see that no one is confusing MSD and DM.

If the OP didn't get MSD and DM confused nothing in his post makes sense.

A diver with just an OW cert. can dive from a boat, should be able to maintain proper bouyancy, use a compass, can take pictures if they want, and try to identify fish while diving. So does taking the boat specialty increase any risk? Does taking the peak performance bouyancy specialty increase risk? What part of the photography, navigation, AWARE fish id specialties or any other specialties increase the risk to a diver?

Extra training reduces risk. Furthermore learning goods habits at a young age is always preferable to developing bad habits you have to unlearn later.

 

[Dive-aholic]

Since there's no such thing as a PADI Master Diver Course, the question never comes up. If the 12 year old can do rescue and collect five specialties, and has enough allowance to put $30 aside, that's all it takes.

Unless PADI has dropped their fee, that's only half of it. I don't have my price list with me, but I think it's closer to $60 for the card. :11:

But, there is no instructor, with discretion or otherwise.

An MSDT does need to sign the application to show that the number of dives, specialties, etc have been achieved. Granted, most MSDTs will just sign the form. After all, it is another cert. :shakehead

 

[The Horn]

After Rescue, perhaps, there is very little if at all necessary choice to continue in the "PADI" or any other organization dive master or master diver or even instructor card unless you want to teach. Most of this would be for insurance purposes. I Don't think there is any "glory" in the "cards"... Wow...your an Instructor....woooooo.....you've been diving for two years etc etc....who cares...really....its a card.....says nothing to your true abilities as of today. It would be nice if the "specialties" actually ment something, really they don't. Most divers go on to experiment with, practice and become very proficient at "specialty skills" far beyond the grasp of the "pay me" organizations.

All the time we continue to flog the horse to the smallest bit of meat to try and justify "superior technique" the "best way" UGH.....

 

[RayJayJr]

well i tried to get the kids to go play in the park but between the perverts hanging out there with their cameras and the pedefiles watching for their chance to pounce i then tried to then send her down to her friends place to play, but between the potential of watching rated r movies or underaged drinking i then thought to send her to the study to do her homework but while online she was inundated by sickos trying to scam her SO i figured having a 13yr old child 30ft underwater with me was the safest place

master scuba diver is just another card collection - no big deal... heck ive even got one and i dont remember doing the paperwork

Point taken.


My apologies for the confusion! I had no idea that Master Scuba Diver involved absolutely no course instruction at all, how stupid is that? From what I had understood previous to this thread, I was under the impression that most people though MSD was lame because the class was bad.

I COMPLETELY understand now. Talk about a money drain!

 

[fabasard]

I BELIEVE she is saying that you do rescue diver and get 5 mini certs and you can apply for MSD. It takes a little something more (money, yes and the willingness to learn more) than your basic rescue diver to become MSD and its the highest a non-professional can go. I appreciate sarcasm, but here is not the place for it :no

 

[Dive-aholic]

After Rescue, perhaps, there is very little if at all necessary choice to continue in the "PADI" or any other organization dive master or master diver or even instructor card unless you want to teach. Most of this would be for insurance purposes. I Don't think there is any "glory" in the "cards"... Wow...your an Instructor....woooooo.....you've been diving for two years etc etc....who cares...really....its a card.....says nothing to your true abilities as of today. It would be nice if the "specialties" actually ment something, really they don't. Most divers go on to experiment with, practice and become very proficient at "specialty skills" far beyond the grasp of the "pay me" organizations.

All the time we continue to flog the horse to the smallest bit of meat to try and justify "superior technique" the "best way" UGH.....

What you say is true, but on the other hand, you can't judge people by the cards they carry either. It's an individual thing. Unfortunately, the industry has taken a turn for the worse, but much of that is the consumer's fault. Many consumers want easy, so that's what the agencies are giving them - easy. Here's my money, now give me the card is the mentality that we're seeing in a lot of wannabe divers out there. I get calls on a regular basis inquiring about open water classes. The most common questions I get are how much will it cost and how long will it take. I think there are some people that if they could get certified by just filling out a form and mailing it in, they would. These same people go on to collect cards by taking as many specialties as they can and they think that makes them better divers. It doesn't. What makes them better divers is getting out there and diving as often as they can. Does that mean they shouldn't take courses? No. Taking courses from the right instructor can help them build a foundation on which to continue that practice. When I teach my courses, I don't teach "superior techniques" or "best ways". I offer as many different methods I can think of and let it be up to the diver to decide what is the best way. In other words, what I'm trying to say in a long winded manner is that a general statement that specialties don't mean anything isn't fair to those of us that go out of our way to make them mean something. The card itself may be meaningless, but the training can be priceless.

 

[scubalifer]

I liked my new card-naming scheme, although for some reason, it never caught on:

• Probabably won't die
• Probably will be OK
• Might be able to help someone else
• Able to help someone else
• Able to teach
• Able to teach and do a really good job of it

Terry

you need to add this one:
Able to sell gear and teach poorly
Able to sell dive shop and retire/die.


Wow, I noticed that dive instructors and those with professional titles seem to get pretty disgruntled at the words "card collectors". It is really nothing personal. I mean from a marketing stand point its great. Keep them coming back. That is the only way to grow your business. Keep current customers and get new ones. Economics baby. Although I slept through that class so I think its economics...it might be something else.