Can someone please explain this oddity to me?

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While in Fiji both of the Dive Operators twin sons were Dive Masters and you guessed it......12. To date they had both cummulated over 200 dives.

What else is there to do it Fiji?

Happy Diving
 
Didn't expect this to be such a hot topic - I must have really controversial ideas! I guess the question is, does that make me a visionary, a rebel, or just someone who likes to stir things up? Don't answer that.

On a related note, I would have to say my suprise comes from the observation that most 12 year olds are far too immature and/or inept at that age to handle an activity such as diving. (I would say most of them should probably stick to watching Air Bud and playing Console Games)

I mean, we're not talking about crippled cancer victims, and kids whos parents are drunks, and as a result of these events and/or disabilities have come to a moment of clarity that allows them to behave like mature adults - were talking about the average 12 year olds from "modern" suburbia.

I guess I'm just a little suprised a large governing body like PADI wouldn't want to filter potential divers with a little more precision? What if a a young kid was to be injured diving? Would that affect their credibility? I can just imagine angry moms everywhere saying "WHY DOES PADI ALLOW KIDS TO TAKE PART IN A DEADLY ACTIVITY LIKE DIVING!? THINK OF THE CHILDREN! SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!"...

I think theres a difference between a 12 year old racing down a hill on a bike and a 12 year old diving to 60+ fsw - The difference is that for a 12 year old, the consequences of racing down a hill wrecklessly on a bike has a clearly observable consequence, whereas a rocket ride to the surface from the deeps may not have consequences that are as obvious, at least to a 12 year old (even when explained).



Perhaps I'm crazy then? Or maybe just not as informed as I could be.

Flame on!
 
It's not about flaming. It's about people who have grown up to be sheltered little babies. Schools in several states have recently banned the game of tag. I believe it's in Massachusets(where they give Ted " a blonde in every pond" Kennedy a drivers license) and a few others. Why? because someone may get injured and the school be held liable. What a crock! Kids get hurt being kids. Period. Scraped knees, bloody noses from a ball, bumps on the head and bruises. It's part of growing up. But no! It's better to raise fat, lazy, video game addicted, cry babies. Usually the result of parents who were raised on the advice of Dr. Spock and coddled and cajoled into doing something instead of given a good kick in the rear end. Are there kids out there who are mature enough, physically able and intelligent enough to get an advanced dive rating at 12? Absolutely! Come to any rural area where they are raised on a farm and are driving tractors bigger than your car at 10. 12-14 yr olds raising and handling large livestock. And I mean big like 1500lb steers and draft horses. They have had maturity and responsibility as part of growing up from the time they could walk. Not the fat, lazy children of over-indulgent parents who cannot even change a tire on their car, or mow their own lawn. I've seen kids at 12 who are much more responsible than 30-40 yr old yuppie punks who have never done a days worth of honest manual labor. Kids do not need to be sheltered. 8 yr old tee ball players do not need batting coaches. They need other 8 yr olds in a vacant lot with a bat, ball, some gloves, and pieces of old tire for bases and no parents who think a little league game is a fashion show and the world series all in one. I grew up in the late 60's- early 70's and in spite of the hippie crapola of time outs and being friends with your kids instead of parents, I had parents who expected respect, doing what I was told when I was told, and disobedience or backtalking was met with a swat instead of a "that's not nice we have to talk about your behavior". As a result I worked in our grocery store at age 8, by 12 I was cutting meat on a band saw, I got my first shotgun at 11, I bought my first high powered rifle with my own money at 14, was in the top 2% of my class in high school, when I moved out at 18 to go to school I never moved back in even though there were some hard times. I regret not going into the military and believe the draft should be brought back. Two years of service before any type of college should be mandatory. Too many kids are brought up to be weak and believe that they deserve what they get instead of earning it. There are good, mature, responsible, kids out there. But due to this new age crap and government interference they are a dying breed and we will be sorry for it in the future. Let them be themselves, give them some room to grow and play. Stop micromanaging their lives and allow the scrapes, bruises, and bumps. They will be happier and healthier.
 
Now we need pre-teen Tech Courses

In high school, alot of the kids drove pickup trucks and had their shotguns etc on the rack, and would hunt during study halls or b4 and after school.

Me thinks that won't be happening with today's wonderful world of political correctness and such.
 
Gawd, but some of these threads are making me feel my age - or show it anyway.

Eisenhower was still president when I was 12, and I wasn't raised as hard as my dad was, but still - I was operating farm machinery that OSHA would severely frown on today and bodily working cattle several times my size - things I just can't ever imagine my 13 yo grandson learning ever. Just a difference in conditioning, tho. I grew into it as it was expected of me. No biggie at all.
 
rbolander:
Perhaps I'm crazy then? Or maybe just not as informed as I could be.
Flame on!
well i tried to get the kids to go play in the park but between the perverts hanging out there with their cameras and the pedefiles watching for their chance to pounce i then tried to then send her down to her friends place to play, but between the potential of watching rated r movies or underaged drinking i then thought to send her to the study to do her homework but while online she was inundated by sickos trying to scam her SO i figured having a 13yr old child 30ft underwater with me was the safest place

master scuba diver is just another card collection - no big deal... heck ive even got one and i dont remember doing the paperwork
 
First, I THINK the OP is confusing MSD with DM. MSD is simply rescue diver plus five certs, it has NOTHING to do with teaching anyone else about SCUBA. DM is the first step in training others, you can get to DM without being a MSD. Secondly, age is relative, there are plenty of 12 year olds I would trust with my life and plenty of 30 year olds I wouldn't trust with a paper bag. This is NOT to flame, or even disagree, but rather to explain that as one has skill let them enjoy the fruits of their labor.
 
Well, my first answer is this: PADI Master Scuba Diver is not actually a course, unlike the PADI Divemaster (considered a recreational professional/leader). If memory serves me, none of the recreational Master Diver certs are a course in nature. They are merely a recognition level ($$ vacuum as some would say).

Now on the professional side (military divers, UW welders, UW demo, etc) I can see this as being a very respected level of achievement requiring years of experience, training, and countless dives in several types of conditions.

It does bother me a bit that a 12 year old could earn the rating of Master Diver in PADI. SSI will not let them reach that level until they are out of the "junior diver" levels, which would put them at age 15 to qualify for their actual Open Water cert, then they must meet all of the Master Diver req's as a certified OW diver. This is partly due to the Junior Diver being required to dive with an adult diver.
 
diverdown247:
Well, my first answer is this: PADI Master Scuba Diver is not actually a course, unlike the PADI Divemaster (considered a recreational professional/leader). If memory serves me, none of the recreational Master Diver certs are a course in nature. They are merely a recognition level ($$ vacuum as some would say).
Try looking into the Naui version , its actually a course . From what most people say its much harder than Padi Dive Master.
 
terrasmak:
Try looking into the Naui version , its actually a course . From what most people say its much harder than Padi Dive Master.

????Um, I think you might want to read what's on NAUIs site about Master Scuba Diver. You appear to be referring to something a bit different than I was. True, NAUI says MSD is a course, but it covers almost exactly what is required for the PADI and SSI Master Scuba Diver ratings. With the exception that PADI and SSI require no less than 50 logged OW dives.

http://www.nauiww.org/master_scuba_diver.php

NAUIs DM page

http://www.nauiww.org/leadership_courses.php#dm

MSD: 4 Specialties, Rescue, AOW/equivalent, be at least 15 years old. The course requires a minimum of 8 dives.

DM, Dive Con, etc. are "leadership"/instruction type positions. The Master Scuba Diver rating is not a leadership/instruction position as defined by the standards.
 

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