Can people really get scuba certified without knowing how to swim?

[boulderjohn]

I was never asked to take a swim test for any scuba class until after earning a rescue cert. The agency required it, the instructors did not.

if she just won an olympic gold in swimming, then why not have her do the swim test? I understand it isn't necessary, but she obviously likes swimming, and it only takes a few minutes. I see this as similar to the gimme in golf, if it is so easy, why not just do it?

I have a theory on why some instructors skip the test, even though it is a required standard. My theory is based on my own OW certification, which did not include a swim test, and my later observations as an instructor myself.

My OW experience: My CW experience was in a resort area, in a relatively small pool with a maximum depth of 5 feet. A number of standards were skipped in that experience. I doubt if there were any pools around that were much different. Think of all the pools you have seen in a resort area and ask yourself how many were suitable to swimming laps. I am sure the operator had to pay a fee for our use of that pool, probably based on the length of time we were in it. I am sure the swim test was seen as a very expensive exercise in an unsuitable location.

My Instructional Experience: I have never had a single student fail the test. I want very much to get the class started--I want them in the water with gear on as soon as possible. In my first instructional experience, we had our own pool in the shop, so time was not that much of a factor. Still, I felt very frustrated as time passed with everyone swimming what felt like endless laps when I knew on lap one that they were all going to pass. In my current instructional experience, we have to rent time in a local pool, and we have very strict start and stop times. That pool time is extremely expensive--it is the chief overhead cost of the class. My frustration as I watch students waste valuable time in this exercise, again when it is so very obvious that they are going to pass once enough valuable time has passed.

I am not NAUI, but it is my understanding that a NAUI instructor is allowed to curtail the swim test once the student has gone far enough to satisfy the instructor's interest in the student's ability to swim. I am happy to be corrected on this, but I sure wish I had this freedom.

 

[kathydee]

I have a theory on why some instructors skip the test, even though it is a required standard. My theory is based on my own OW certification, which did not include a swim test, and my later observations as an instructor myself.

My OW experience: My CW experience was in a resort area, in a relatively small pool with a maximum depth of 5 feet. A number of standards were skipped in that experience. I doubt if there were any pools around that were much different. Think of all the pools you have seen in a resort area and ask yourself how many were suitable to swimming laps. I am sure the operator had to pay a fee for our use of that pool, probably based on the length of time we were in it. I am sure the swim test was seen as a very expensive exercise in an unsuitable location.

I think it was a matter of convenience and perhaps safety as he was very conservative with his students & classes. He taught the rest of our OW class as though in a University, serious and very detail orientated.

We took OW class in a little resort town in Bali Indonesia with plenty of flat shallow shore line for the swimming test. Directly in front of the shop there was much boat traffic which could have been a safety issue. The other beach required about a 20 minute walk to access.

I don't remember surface conditions that day, but perhaps they factored into his decision to skip the swim test.

He asked us if we could swim the required distance, we said yes, and he passed on the test.

 

[Johnmpcny]

I have seen some handicapped divers before. They cannot swim or pass swimming test after their accident but still wanted to keep diving never without a diving buddy who was trained to deal with them or with a DM. So I guess you feel they not be allowed to dive?

 

[Jill from Phoenix]

I am not NAUI, but it is my understanding that a NAUI instructor is allowed to curtail the swim test once the student has gone far enough to satisfy the instructor's interest in the student's ability to swim. I am happy to be corrected on this, but I sure wish I had this freedom.

Our swim test is demonstrated novice swim ability. Minimum - 15 stroke cycles of any combination of classic strokes as long as they achieve forward progression. It depends on their watermanship, but most will complete 15 stroke cycles with a lap in the pool. In addition, we also have a 10min survival float or tread. The students will also snorkel 450 yards, tow 50 yards, do numerous surface dives, etc. This is the minimum, but the instructors are encouraged to exceed standards, many still have their students swim a full 225yards.

This thread makes me remember these 2 women that couldn't swim, but they could dive. Swim being a relative word. I was in DM training and helping out on a small 6-pack boat in the Caribbean. Two young women, went for a dive, when they surfaced, I leaned over the side of the boat and asked them to take their unit off. They looked at me with this look of horror - "We can't swim". I was just perplexed. Totally happy in their gear, totally unhappy without it.

 

[irmo]

Interesting thread. My own opinion is that if you're going to participate in any water sport regularly, you owe it to yourself to learn to swim proficiently. This is a common sense matter of safety. Certifying agencies no doubt include the swim test as part of the class for that reason, to keep divers safe. Swimming may or may not help diving technique; in fact diving may also help swimming technique for some people.

Instructors skipping the swim test for whatever reason are only shorting their students, same as if they skipped or skimped on any other aspect of safety intended to be included in the training course. It may or may not matter in the long run. The trouble is that in the cases where it matters, the downside is pretty bad. I'm a new diver so no doubt there are a lot of people who might not want to dive with me, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want to buddy up with a non-swimmer, regardless of diving experience. Too much can go wrong.

Here's a tragic but true story that happened here a couple of months ago. A man, his 7 year old son, and his dog were canoeing on a reservoir here and the canoe capsized. The man, a non-swimmer without a PFD, drowned. The boy, also a non-swimmer but wearing a PFD, was pulled to shore by witnesses in the area. The dog, a swimmer, made it to shore easily. Clearly swimming wouldn't improve his paddling technique, but it would have made a huge difference in this case.

Have fun, be safe, learn to swim.

 

[mdax]

i can't believe so many of you are ok with scuba divers not being able to swim, to me it seems incredibly stupid. It's a reflection of folks in the "industry" wanting to be all inclusive in order to make money.

 

[nimoh]

I have seen some handicapped divers before. They cannot swim or pass swimming test after their accident but still wanted to keep diving never without a diving buddy who was trained to deal with them or with a DM. So I guess you feel they not be allowed to dive?

I think handicapped divers are a different story, special considerations need to be made for them to dive (as you mentioned) and this needs to be done on an individual basis since their abilities vary. I think this discussion is more about the bare minimum requirements for certification of divers that will go out on their own with a buddy of the same ability.

I think swimming should be required, but I would never look down on a diver that couldn't swim, nor would I skip a dive because someone in the group couldn't swim. Most of the time it is a non-issue, and in an event where it becomes a rescue, I'll do my best.

 

[Jill from Phoenix]

i can't believe so many of you are ok with scuba divers not being able to swim, to me it seems incredibly stupid. It's a reflection of folks in the "industry" wanting to be all inclusive in order to make money.

Competitive swimmers are usually very easy to teach scuba. But if they're not at that level of watermanship, they can still at least try scuba. Anyone can do it, the question is whether everyone should do it.

Everything in scuba is such a gray area. And there's an exception to every rule. Try to tell someone they can't dive - 90% will accept what you say. 9% will try and fail. And 1% will do it just to prove you wrong.

If a non-swimmer really wants to dive, they'll do it with or without the standards in their favor.

 

[Peter Guy]

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me "what does it mean to be able to swim?"

IF, for example, a person can roll over on their back and using arms and/or legs, propel themselves for 200 yards, can they "swim?" The dog in the story undoubtedly was doing a "dog paddle" stroke and if a student did that for 200 (400, whatever) yards, can they "swim?"

It sounds like "some" of the posters equate "being a swimmer" with someone who has a recognizable stroke and can efficiently use that stroke over "X" distance and within "Y" time. So, what does it mean to "be able to swim?"

 

[k ellis]

i can't believe so many of you are ok with scuba divers not being able to swim, to me it seems incredibly stupid. It's a reflection of folks in the "industry" wanting to be all inclusive in order to make money.

Call it what you want but I am glad the industry allowed me to dive without knowng how. Now because of scuba I am a proficient swimmer. I guess I would never have been a swimmer had I been shorted by an short sighted instructor.