Bush ok's Gulf of Mexico Drilling

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mrjimboalaska:
ONLY DRAWBACK....can't hunt with a rifle within the 5 mile limit.......:D

you can't shoot within 5 miles of the pipeline?

hmmm... hey, that actually makes sense


(oops... you know, i thought FOR SURE i wouldn't hit the darn thing with a .30-30 at 300 yards)
 
H2Andy:
America is a junkie for oil ... a good start would be to cut back on oil and grow our own supply

the only real way to be independent of oil is to find an alternative energy source that we can control

i don't see that happening anytime soon
Actually I heard a presentation by an economics professor, who was also a Congressman, a few years ago explaining how developing more American oil reserves could actually lead to greater conservation in the long run. I’m not an economist and I don’t remember all the details but I’ll try a Cliff Notes version.

First of all energy prices and oil in particular is one of the most fickle markets because of the extremely low profit margins (despite the large numbers due to great volumes) and very high risk factors. This combined with unpredictable regulatory forces also causes the margin between supply and demand to be very low, Strategic Reserves notwithstanding. This is why an infinitesimal change in anticipated reserves or supply of less than .1% globally can cause huge fluctuations in energy prices. A prime example of this was when Shell announced discovery of new reserves at 30,000’ this summer and the world oil price promptly dropped $2 per barrel. There is also an interchangeability of energy factor in the markets where a disruption in natural gas supplies can cause a spike in both gas and oil prices due to both the dual use facilities and different locations using one or the other for the same industry.

Because of the potential for the large energy price fluctuations that started during the market realignment of 1972, we’ve seen a huge growth in the energy pass through contracts and policies DrBill referenced and both businesses and consumers mentally factor in a fudge factor in energy costs. The energy pass throughs are counter productive to conservation because the entity ultimately responsible for implementing conservation efforts losses any incentive to conserve if they know they can pass energy costs directly to the consumer without a market penalty. The other issue brought up that I never got to fully understand was energy price ranges and margins for error in pricing. The overall economy is influenced by the actual cost of energy, but it is also influenced by what might be a reasonable future or peak cost of energy – and since 72 that spread has grown rather large. A consumer example would be that we might find gasoline reasonable at $2.25 a gallon knowing there’s the possibility that it will spike up to $2.75 occasionally, but we would be concerned if the price were $2.50 with the potential for $3.00 spikes. Now if we felt confident that prices would not be subject to wild swings we would probably be happy with $2.50 gas that might go up to $2.57 next year.

Without market confidence in a stable energy cost it will plan for and assume the worst, meaning it will build in a large margin for error and the overall economy will grind to a halt long before the actual energy price reaches a point that should slow it down. On the other hand when the price of energy stays below that high possible price people think the price is low enough that they don’t see an incentive to conserve. A more stable price for energy allows the price to be high enough to encourage conservation, but not so high as to create a recession or negatively impact the overall economy. A stable price also allows oil companies and producers to feel comfortable increasing their reserves slightly, which increases price stability even more.

Despite hurricanes and earthquakes, American energy production is the most consistently stable in the world and without it the energy speculators would really have a field day. While some of the American reserves that are currently off limits may not be particularly huge in terms of total output, they are certainly big enough to add tremendous stability to the world markets. This happens both because we are adding supply to the market, but American producers with a stable regulatory hand tend to work with larger margins between supply and demand than most other nation’s firms. This is why contrary to the claims of many environmentalist groups and NGOs what may only sound like a few years supply of oil can have a huge impact on world energy prices and price stability. The other factor in play here is that I don’t know of a single energy field that hasn’t produced many times more energy than it’s initial published reserves. To the DIR types here one could say that initial published yield of a new oil field is a “rock bottom” conservative number that is used for initial accounting purposes based on the best scientific proof before production is actually started. Once production actually starts the reserves of the field can be better determined and it will almost always be more than what was needed to consider the field worth exploring further. We have fields producing in the US today that have exceeded initial expectations by 10 fold or more and there’s no end in sight if the fields are properly managed.

If I haven’t totally confused you, that’s how increasing American production can stabilize prices making energy costs more realistic to consumers in a manner that will be an incentive to conservation without damaging the overall economy. We should put a stop to people deciding to drive their SUV all over the state this month because the price of gas is low, parking it next month when gas prices surge, and then pulling it out again the month after. Consumers aren’t as stupid as they appear at times and they know how to play the game, so let’s make the game something that’s a win for Americans and the environment at the same time.
 
Bill51:
Actually I heard a presentation by an economics professor, who was also a Congressman, a few years ago explaining how developing more American oil reserves could actually lead to greater conservation in the long run....

A prime example of this was when Shell announced discovery of new reserves at 30,000’ this summer and the world oil price promptly dropped $2 per barrel.


if more reserves means cheaper oil, that is actually a green light for more consumption, not less

only more expensive oil will lead to less consumption ... well, that's not true ...rationing could also lead to less consumption, in which case the price of available oil goes up, which leads to the same thing
 
vondo:
Hydrogen is not a waste product of nuclear energy. Also, yes, you can get hydrogen from breaking apart natural gas. However, that process still produces lots of CO2 and takes energy (and of course no longer have natural gas which you can burn).

Hydrogen is not an energy source. Hydrogen is a way to get energy from one point to another just like a rechargable battery. It takes energy to make it, so the only way we stop using fossil fuels is to use other forms of energy (wind, solar, hydro, nuclear) to make hydrogen.
I interpreted his statement in the figurative way I hear it most, not that hydrogen is literally a byproduct of nukes. Since hydrogen is an energy storage rather than production product it makes no environmental or economic sense to use it for energy storage unless you’re creating it from nuclear generated electricity.
 
H2Andy:
if more reserves means cheaper oil, that is actually a green light for more consumption, not less

only more expensive oil will lead to less consumption ... well, that's not true ...rationing could also lead to less consumption, in which case the price of available oil goes up, which leads to the same thing
Read again. Greater American production won’t need to be spot priced cheaper, only to let the public face price be stable enough to stabilize energy use, then there will be conservation – unless the price becomes so cheap that we can afford to waste it and that just isn’t going to happen.

Ya, rationing on even odd days really worked back in the 70s when people started hording gas, then binging with it.
 
Bill51:
I interpreted his statement in the figurative way I hear it most, not that hydrogen is literally a byproduct of nukes. Since hydrogen is an energy storage rather than production product it makes no environmental or economic sense to use it for energy storage unless you’re creating it from nuclear generated electricity.

Economically it may make sense at some point even if it doesn't make enviromental sense. The cost/joule from oil may go way up while the cost/joule of coal may not, so it may make economic sense to use hydrogen as a storage medium in that case.

As I suspect you realize, there are a lot of misconceptions about "hydrogen power" that are perpetuated by some (most?) of our public policy makers. This tends to lead to people believing that somehow "hydrogen" is the solution to all the environmental ills of fossil fuels. Just trying to do my small bit to correct those misconceptions. Apologies if that's not what he meant.
 
Bill51:
Read again. Greater American production won’t need to be spot priced cheaper, only to let the public face price be stable enough to stabilize energy use, then there will be conservation – unless the price becomes so cheap that we can afford to waste it and that just isn’t going to happen.

i'm sorry, that doesn't work. you know why? because energy use is not stable in the future. rather, energy prices today dicate energy uses tomorrow. stable, cheaper prices today will lead to investment in energy-consuming areas, which will then increase the demand for more energy which will lead to higher prices.

Ya, rationing on even odd days really worked back in the 70s when people started hording gas, then binging with it.

lol i'm not saying it worked. i'm saying that if you want to really screw up the market, artificially inflate (ration) or deflate (added reserves) the price of avilable oil and you'll see what happens.

adding more reserves to the market will just lower the price of energy, which will increase consumption, which will drive supply down, which will lead to an increase in price all over again ... and all you've done is raise the baseline at which the need for oil rests
 
H2Andy:
you are assuming that these deposits are all linked together and accessible to both Cuba/China and the U.S.

most oil pockets, as far as i know (and i am by no means well read on this subject) are discrete in location; in other words, you need to be on top of them to drill, and they don't extend along the surface for a considerable distance.

but yes, if there are oil pockets in the border than can be accessed both from the US and the Cuban side, then the Cuban/Chinese drilling could deplete them or make further drilling unprofitable

but these pockets would be a few, if any. would you agree?
Specific well holes can be very specific by area, but that can occur within a field or formation that covers hundreds of square miles. Sometimes a formation can be in honeycomb grid tunnels where you can miss by drilling between the formation tunnels. Other times there is considerable vertical relief to the formation and one economically viable hole can hit the formation at 2,000’ and 200 yards away you would need to drill 5,000’ to get into the same formation and that might not be worth drilling to that depth.
 
Currently there are 25 rigs in inland waters and 81 offshore from the US. The majority of which are in Louisiana and Texas waters. These platforms are the source of income for thousands and produce many barrels of oil for our country. I myself am employed by a service company for the oil industry, currently I am working in Africa and Brasil but the majority of our work is in the GOM. I myself enjoy diving the rigs and consider rig diving some of the most exciting diving I have ever done. Also the fishing at these rigs is just amazing. I am personally very happy that our government will now start allowing drilling in other areas of our country I just hope the oil companys HSE policys stay strong around the world to keep our environment clean.
 

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