Bush ok's Gulf of Mexico Drilling

[ReefHound]

But, gasoline prices eventually plummeted for one reason: people cut back on energy consumption. The laws of supply and demand took care of the rest.

It's not that simplistic. Supply AND demand. There are two parts there, you can't just point to one part as responsible.

Energy consumption pulled back - as it usually does - because we went into a recession in 1979. You might note that annual consumption increased from the mid to late 90's at the same time oil prices plummeted to new lows.

but the fact is that the US uses twice as much energy per capita as the developed countries of Europe. Whatever the reason gasoline costs more in Europe, the fact is that it is the reason that gasoline usage is far less than in the US.

Perhaps "a" reason, certainly not "the" reason. Economic activity and GNP are also factors. The USA is larger and less dense, my commute to work is probably 4 times the average European's.

The second fact is that a 10 percent increase in gas mileage on vehicles is worth more than all the new drilling in ANWR or off the coasts will produce. And it's forever.

If cheap gas induces people to drive more, why wouldn't more fuel efficient cars induce people to drive more as well?

Besides, increasing supplies and decreasing consumption are not mutually exclusive options.

I find it fascinating, and maddening, that I hear "conservatives" continue defend their freedom to drive Hummers while our men and women continue to die in Iraq, a country we in which we would have ignored except for its oil. The sales of these polluting beasts, and Expeditions, and ... only dropped when gas prices hit $3./gallon.

Stuff the politics. We intervened in Yugoslavia in 1999 and last time I checked they weren't major oil producers.

 

[steeliejim]

It's not that simplistic. Supply AND demand. There are two parts there, you can't just point to one part as responsible.

Energy consumption pulled back - as it usually does - because we went into a recession in 1979. You might note that annual consumption increased from the mid to late 90's at the same time oil prices plummeted to new lows.

first, I looked into the data re. oil supplies and demand, because I was curious as to why prices plummeted. And, while I admit the relationship cannot be proven to be causal, independent statistics showed a precipitous drop in prices right at the time that consumption dropped BEFORE supplies became widely available again. It's been a long time since I've looked at the data, so don't have the links, but I'm sure you can find it/them. Doesn't matter why consumption decreased. My point was that reduced consumption for whatever reason will drive prices down.





Perhaps "a" reason, certainly not "the" reason. Economic activity and GNP are also factors. The USA is larger and less dense, my commute to work is probably 4 times the average European's.

Yes we are less dense, but drive outside cities, or even towns in Europe, and you are immdiately in the countryside. We developed the way we did, at least in part, because of cheap oil which provided no disincentive to sprawl. Free enterprise is great. However, I wager that we would have no seat belt laws nor anti-pollution requirements on vehicles if it had not been legislated. Another part, and certainly not the only one, is the dismantling of our public transit system by the big auto manufacturers.





If cheap gas induces people to drive more, why wouldn't more fuel efficient cars induce people to drive more as well?

Besides, increasing supplies and decreasing consumption are not mutually exclusive options.

True re. the fact that increasing supplies and decreasing consumption are not necessarily mutually exclusive. But, Gresham's Law is alive and well: Bad money drives out good. Namely, if gas is cheap, why not drive a big gas-wasting vehicle. Some people will choose not to, and that is provable based on sales breaddowns of up until a year ago.




Stuff the politics. We intervened in Yugoslavia in 1999 and last time I checked they weren't major oil producers.

.

Responded to those two points above. .

And thanks to Bill51 for his tempered response to me, given, particularly that he apparently is an oil insider.

 

[Mafiaman]

Simple Andy, It's easier to power a flash light than the torch of liberty!

Per capita we don't hold a candle to France.

 

[H2Andy]

Simple Andy, It's easier to power a flash light than the torch of liberty!

Per capita we don't hold a candle to France.

the problem is that the U.S. is less than 5% of the world population and it consumes over 25% of the world's energy output ...

so ... yeah ... i guess you do need to figure out what the cheapest and cleanest ways to produce energy are and get on it fast, because we can't keep this up for long

 

[Mafiaman]

the problem is that the U.S. is less than 5% of the world population and it consumes over 25% of the world's energy output ...

so ... yeah ... i guess you do need to figure out what the cheapest and cleanest ways to produce energy are and get on it fast, because we can't keep this up for long

The other option would be to reduce the quality of life and our freedom of travel that our Scientists, educators, the politicians on both side of the isle, and the American people worked so hard to achieve and pay for.

 

[H2Andy]

The other option would be to reduce the quality of life and our freedom of travel that our Scientists, educators, the politicians on both side of the isle, and the American people worked so hard to achieve and pay for.

well, it's not either or

we can cut back within reason, and bump up production within reason, and change our expectations as to what is possible and desirable ...

as they say in military planning: can we do it? should we do it?

 

[ReefHound]

the problem is that the U.S. is less than 5% of the world population and it consumes over 25% of the world's energy output ...

It also generates 25% of the world's economic activity and funds 25% of the UN humanitarian operations (or used to). Contrary to your insinuations, we are not less energy efficient than other developed countries.

 

[H2Andy]

Contrary to your insinuations, we are not less energy efficient than other developed countries.

i am not insinuating anything .. why make this personal?

what we are is an energy consumer of the first magnitude (the biggest in the world), and we can't meet our own energy needs

the bulk of our electricity relies on oil, which we don't have in abbundance and have to import ...

draw your own conclusions

 

[ReefHound]

i am not insinuating anything .. why make this personal?

what we are is an energy consumer of the first magnitude (the biggest in the world), and we can't meet our own energy needs

the bulk of our electricity relies on oil, which we don't have in abbundance and have to import ...

draw your own conclusions

If you're not insinuating anything, then why tell part of the story and omit the rest? Like the part that we consume 25% of world energy because we generate 25% of world economic activity? Why is that a "problem"?

 

[H2Andy]

we generate 25% of world economic activity

how are you measuring that?