Burning Question...

[Big-t-2538]

First off, I don't have either cert, and am probably going to head down these paths in the near future....and am in a decision making process now anyway....

I chose cave first for a couple reasons. One, it is (or at least should be) a skill intesive class. You are learning new techniques and they have to be pretty damn good in order to become a cave diver.

I feel that in order to receive decompression training you have to posess good techniques and the ability to hit your run-times. You have to have good bouyancy and the ability to compensate if something happens. I think this is a mindset that should be learned in a skills intensive class such as caving.

With that being said, I think the two classes are a complement to each other. In order to get to some caves, you have to go deep, but there are plenty of caves within the 80' to 100' range where you can learn caving techniques. Everything I've read about helium suggests that a He mix is the way to go for deeper dives and is safer than air.

 

[malammon]

When you say full cave, does that mean you are already apprentice cave? Or are you planning to do the one week crash course? If you are not even cavern certified, then a full cave course is going to cost you more than a trimix course. Of course this assumes you already have advanced nitrox, normoxic mix, etc.... Choosing between cave and trimix is like choosing between F1 and Nascar, they are both the top rung on ladders which include many lower steps. Of course I'm sure you have made these steps if you are looking at these particular courses.

My vote if for cave, you will use these skills in all of your diving.

 

[JamieZ]

O-ring, my point is most of the people who have taken Trimix (at least up here) have no penetration skills at all. Most of them dont run lines dont care about silt outs ect. That goes for the majority of the people diving wrecks off Long Island, but not all. Basically they'll tell you, I'll cut your line if it gets in my way. This is just what I've seen from the few times I've been down there, not including my buddy who's also been down there with out me and he ends up being the only one who runs lines. Actually this includes allot of St. Lawrence and Great Lakes Divers. Not saying all the above dont but the majority of them dont.

 

[O-ring]

scubanarc once bubbled...
O-ring, my point is most of the people who have taken Trimix (at least up here) have no penetration skills at all. Most of them dont run lines dont care about silt outs ect. That goes for the majority of the people diving wrecks off Long Island, but not all. Basically they'll tell you, I'll cut your line if it gets in my way. This is just what I've seen from the few times I've been down there, not including my buddy who's also been down there with out me and he ends up being the only one who runs lines. Actually this includes allot of St. Lawrence and Great Lakes Divers. Not saying all the above dont but the majority of them dont.

...but I will take it a step further. Most of the people around here (not sure about NY) who have taken trimix don't even have decent fundamental diving skills either. I agree that cave would polish these and in the case of some would fail them until they developed the necessary skills...I guess the reality of it is that people don't know what they don't know and won't develop those skills on their own (although, IMHO, they could without cave training)..

 

[chickdiver]

O Ring- here's an arguement from the other side of the fence so to speak. Most people will never "figure out" the correct way to run lines, line protocals, etc without formal instruction, Ii think caves are the best way to do this. Over the years I have known many experienced wreck divers who came south to get cave cert in order to refine thier skills. On the other hand- Trimix cert is nice, but realistically- if you uinderstand the math for nitrox, then you understand it for trimix. The planning aspects arent too hard, and if you do a handful of mix dives with expereienced divers, you learn how to do it pretty quickly. Of all the mix divers I know, only a handful ever took a class. I never took a mix class- when I became a mix instructor, I fond that I knew more about it and had more dives than the Instructor Trainer..... I just dont feel that a mix class is as necessary or as useful as a Cave class.

 

[O-ring]

chickdiver once bubbled...
O Ring- here's an arguement from the other side of the fence so to speak. Most people will never "figure out" the correct way to run lines, line protocals, etc without formal instruction, Ii think caves are the best way to do this. Over the years I have known many experienced wreck divers who came south to get cave cert in order to refine thier skills. On the other hand- Trimix cert is nice, but realistically- if you uinderstand the math for nitrox, then you understand it for trimix. The planning aspects arent too hard, and if you do a handful of mix dives with expereienced divers, you learn how to do it pretty quickly. Of all the mix divers I know, only a handful ever took a class. I never took a mix class- when I became a mix instructor, I fond that I knew more about it and had more dives than the Instructor Trainer..... I just dont feel that a mix class is as necessary or as useful as a Cave class.

He should take both!

 

[chickdiver]

I agree with you there, but if primacy is an issue, I would say cave first for those reasons.

 

[Pez de Diablo]

chickdiver once bubbled...
<snip>
if you do a handful of mix dives with expereienced divers, you learn how to do it pretty quickly. Of all the mix divers I know, only a handful ever took a class. I never took a mix class- when I became a mix instructor, I fond that I knew more about it and had more dives than the Instructor Trainer..... I just dont feel that a mix class is as necessary or as useful as a Cave class.

I couldn't agree more.
In most other sports, learning from your peers is the way to progress.

 

[icediver]

I took my cave course when I only had 50 dives. The skills learned on that course made me 10 times the diver I was before that.

However I do use the trimix training more often. So it depends where you are in your skill level at this time, and your ablity to get to caves.

T

 

[LUBOLD8431]

Well, I am Cavern certified, and I do have "some" training in the use of lines and stuff... not like jumps and gaps and stuff. ALso, I took deco procedures and advanced nitrox last summer. I have some good experience up in the quarry in VT that we go to about three or four times a year (about a 4 hr dive each way).

Its all tied up again... I guess I will have to take both. LOL!!!