Buoyancy Difference Helium to AIr

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

Peter69_56

Contributor
Scuba Instructor
Divemaster
Messages
1,545
Reaction score
649
Location
Australia
# of dives
500 - 999
What is the buoyancy difference between Helium and air.

Lets say in a tank we have 1000 litres helium/1000 litres air vs 2000 litres air. What is the buoyancy difference.
 
How much does a liter or helium weigh? How much does a liter or air weigh?

Dat google.
 
If I feel a balloon with He, it flows away.
H2 is even better.
 
I once saw a set of doubles float away but the pressure was low and the HE content was high in the mix.



1 cubic foot of air at standard temperature and pressure assuming average composition weighs approximately 0.0807 lbs.

1 cubic foot of Helium weighs approximately 0.01114 lbs.

Im not good at math but you get the idea.
 
From good old google;

1m3 Air= 1.2924 kg
1m3 helium= 0.1785 kg
Thus Weight difference per 1000 litre =1.1239 kg

So a 15/30 mix would require an additional 2 kg weight for buoyancy
 
Why would you need more lead to comp for the helium. do you think there is 2kg weight difference in a tank with 500 psi. you should be neutral at 500., the difference should be notices when you use the bc to comp for the weight, it will take very little to comp for a full tank compared to a near empty. 500psi of air in a al80 is 13 cuft that is about 1# of air or .1# helium. so any mix will be between .1 and 1# weight at safety stop and 500 psi. so for a 30% helium mix your tank should be about 2/3 the weight of air at 3M. about 1/3# per tank. I think that 2kg may be a little much unless its for large doubles.
 
If you have 18/45 trimix, you have 18% O2, 45% He and 37% N2.

(The math phobic can skip to the next section.)

You need to figure the weight of the gas by volume but the molecular weight is in moles so you need the number of moles per cubic foot.

1 cubic ft of gas contains 1.26414494 moles at standard temperature and pressure (70 degrees F, 1 ATM)

Then you need the weight of 1 mole of each gas:

1 mole of O2 = 31.99 grams
1 mole of He = 4.003 grams
1 mole of N2 = 28.01 grams

Consequently, in 1 cu ft (1.2641 moles) of 18/45/37, you'll have:

.2257 moles of O2;
.5689 moles of He; and
.4677 moles of N2.

the weight of the gases in 1 cu ft of 18/45/37 is then:

O2 = 7.2 grams
He = 2.28 grams
N2 = 13.10 grams

For a total of 22.58 grams, or .0498 pounds per cubic ft of 18/45.

In comparison air is 21% O2 and 79% nitrogen (for all practical purposes)

1 cu ft still equals 1.26414494 moles of gas

1 mole of O2 = 31.99 grams
1 mole of N2 = 28.01 grams

and, in1 cu ft of air you'll have:

.2655 moles of O2; and
.9987 moles of N2.

Consequently, the weight of the gases in 1 cu ft of air is:

O2 = 8.49 grams
N2 = 27.97 grams
Total = 36.46 grams, or .0804 pounds per cubic ft of air.

32% nitrox isn't much different:

.4045 moles and 12.94 grams of O2;
.8596 moles of N2 and 24.08 grams of 02;
for a total of 37.02 grams, or .0816 pounds per cubic ft for 32% nitrox.

------

I'll assume we're doing a fairly normal normoxic trimix dive with double LP 95s filled with the 18/45, a stage of nitrox as a travel mix/first deco gas, and a deco bottle with O2.

A pair of cave filled LP 95s and an AL 80 stage holds 335 cu ft of gas. That gas weighs:
16.68 pounds if it's 18/45; and
26.93 pounds if it's air.

Consequently, at the bottom early in the dive you need about 10 pounds less lift in the wing to achieve neutral buoyancy. That's where we'll notice the lighter weight of the helium.

As noted by a poster above, the difference at the end of the dive is much less significant. With 200 psi or so in the stage the difference between air and 18/45 trimix is insignificant.

With 1550 psi (one third of the total gas in the back gas and stage) left in the doubles, you have a total of 111.5 cubic feet of 18/45 remaining. That gas weighs 5.6 pounds, compared to 9 pounds for a comparable volume of air, a difference of only 3.4 pounds.

The reality is that most divers with double LP95s, an empty stage of bottom mix, a 1/3 rd full stage of nitrox and a deco bottle of O2 are not going to need any additional weight to hold their 10 and 20 ft deco stops, even with trimix, unless they are diving in very cool water with heavy undergarments. Consequently, I don't think many divers will bother adding the extra 3.4 pounds of lead weight.

But a trimix diver can get by with 10 pounds less lift in the wing and the above water weight of the back gas and stage of bottom mix will be 10 pounds less than if they were filled with air.
 
my question to the OP is why does it matter?

The tanks have a fixed buoyancy characteristic when empty. It is ever so slightly less with a high helium mix, but we are talking fractions of a pound. With high helium mix, it just means your buoyancy shift from full to empty is smaller which technically would allow you to dive a smaller wing. Doesn't change your weighting at all. Even with a 100% helium mix, it still has mass, so your total gas weight is 1/7th of what it is with air. I.e. an AL80 contains 6.2lbs of air, or just 0.9lbs of helium, but when empty it will still be 4.4lbs positive.

For backgas, this means that most divers will be less overweighted, which is a good thing. In stage bottles however it means they will always float. +4.4lbs when empty, less about 2.5lbs for the regulator and rigging is 2lbs+, so the stages will float away and you have to compensate for that, but the tanks aren't going to do anything worse than they would if you emptied them completely, so depending on how you set up your weighting, will depend on where you put that lead, if you put it on at all.
 
Yes I think the main point I missed is that it all matters at the start of the dive, but you are heavy anyway, and at the end of the dive you are virtually similar with either gas mix as the cylinders are near empty.
 
I add a v-weight when I know I'm going to be managing a bunch of light bottles. Without the added mass of nitrox in my backgas, staying neutral with a bouquet of light stages is a pain in the ass.

Being a bit too light is way worse than being a bit too heavy.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/
http://cavediveflorida.com/Rum_House.htm

Back
Top Bottom