An age-old question: ways to 60m.

[Kay Dee]

Deep diving on air must be approached with a strong sense of the possibilities of uncontrollable circumstances and negative outcomes...

There is no such thing as getting
“good” at deep diving on air. While a person may be truly competent, their competency will only allow them to be lucky when diving deep.

-- Wes Skiles, 1991

And pray tell, Wes died breathing what / on what / and how deep?

Hint, to anyone who may not know, it wasnt air (although Wes certainly had spun enough 'deep enough' air dives on the roulette wheel he likens it too above).

EDIT. And let me add, it wasn't deep.

 

[inquis]

Hint, to anyone who may not know, it wasnt air

Your post is analogous to saying a critic of Russian roulette was killed by a mugger, therefore his criticism of Russian roulette is bogus. How Wes Skiles died is irrelevant to his stance against deep air.

 

[Kay Dee]

Your post is analogous to saying a critic of Russian roulette was killed by a mugger, therefore his criticism of Russian roulette is bogus. How Wes died is irrelevant to his stance against deep air.

I dont see what he is saying as being a 'critical' of deep air, and certainly not a stance against deep air. Except in caves, to which I agree, and much deeper than 60 odd meters in OW, too which I also agree.

EDIT. And what a poor analogy you make.

 

[old frogman]

Your post is analogous to saying a critic of Russian roulette was killed by a mugger, therefore his criticism of Russian roulette is bogus. How Wes Skiles died is irrelevant to his stance against deep air.

Mate, I can see the point you are making and no disrespect to the deceased. But CCR are not the necessarily safest option in all situations.

 

[Celt]

Not enough info to answer this question in a general sense.

What are the location issues? Availability of help if something goes wrong (helicopter, chamber location). Weather and diving conditions. Type of boat. Conditions on the wreck. Expected slack period and currents. Target bottom and decompression times. Number of divers diving.

This week is a 70m/230ft wreck week in Malin Head, NW Ireland. The nine divers are all diving CCR on at least 14/50 trimix doing 1h30 to 2h30 runtimes. Helium for open circuit is NOT available. Nobody would be stupid enough to dive OC air, nor would they be allowed on the trip.

Your questions are too binary. Nobody would choose the inappropriate technology when far better technologies are available. This is borne out on the dive boats: there are very very few open circuit trimix divers seen on any dive boats for decompression diving. CCR is the most appropriate technology for diving beyond NDLs and especially below 45m/150ft.

Of course if you had to do a quick bounce dive in good conditions and only had air, then it is of course possible, but nobody would use that if better technologies are available.

There’s at least 30 wrecks north and northwest of Malin head in the 60m range that have all been dived on air at one time or another. It suits the charter boats to run groups of CCR divers but you’re mistaken if you believe private individuals are not diving on air. We dived the Tory and Malin wrecks on air and heliair out to 80m

 

[inquis]

certainly not a stance against deep air.

I found an article he wrote in 1991 for AquaCorps to be quite informative informative. Linked and another quote:

The gravity of that error [being so narced that I didn't know the way to safety] ended my misdirected, ego-driven deep dives on compressed air, which, up until that time, had seemed so very important. From that experience, along with a few other not-quite-so-close calls, I began to reassess the reasons that I and others had used to justify a deep dive on air. -- Wes Skiles

 

[inquis]

But CCR are not the necessarily safest option in all situations.

Never said it was, but having done all 3 options being kicked about, I believe OC air to be the least safe for me. YMMV, of course.

 

[old frogman]

Never said it was, but having done all 3 options being kicked about, I believe OC air to be the least safe for me. YMMV, of course.

I respect that.

 

[old frogman]

There’s at least 30 wrecks north and northwest of Malin head in the 60m range that have all been dived on air at one time or another. It suits the character boats to run groups of CCR divers but you’re mistaken if you believe private individuals are not diving on air. We dived the Tory and Malin wrecks on air and heliair out to 80m

80 metres on heliair. Was that a secret Irish poitin mix? I can work out that O2 pp would have been close to 2 BAR. What equivalent narcotic depth were you aiming at with the helium additive?

poitin - Irish moonshine

 

[Celt]

80 metres on heliair. Was that a secret Irish poitin mix? I can work out that O2 pp would have been close to 2 BAR. What equivalent narcotic depth were you aiming at with the helium additive?

poitin - Irish moonshine

1.6 was the cut off, oxygen toxicity was the real problem not narcosis when working. When we done a survey on the Spectator wreck in 83m we deemed it impossible ( for us) to salvage the copper ingots which littered the bottom.