Bummed out by Attempt at OW Dive (long)

[irishsquid]

...I have found that for me a snorkel creates contributes to the "can't breathe" and "tuckered out" feeling on the surface. IMHO The snorkel is a 1 inch tube 18 inches long. This translates into the first 18 cubic inches of each breath is the exhale from the previous breath or dead air. This increases your carbon dioxide load which triggers the "got to breath" response and contributes to the "can't breathe" sensation.

Another thing that can contribute to this; is a poorly fitted jacket BCD. If you over fill it with air or it is a tad tight, then it'll be like a boa constrictor wrapped around you and you won't be able to take a good full breath, which compounds the snorkel effect.

....I struggled with the buoyancy of my new wetsuit, and couldn't get down on my second dive due to the changes in my AL80 tank...
...One was that having all my weight on my weightbelt completely destroyed my trim, and I flailed around like a drunken bumblebee.
...you can work on your buoyancy and trim. This means, probably, being aware of how high or low you attach your tank to the BCD, as well as breaking weights up between your belt and the BCD pockets.

Good advice. A poorly fitted BCD could also cause you to be unstable in the water, due to the gear moving around and throwing your balance/trim out the window.

..I spray my arms, legs and shoulders with 1/3 hair conditioner and 2/3 water to help slip into the suit. A plastic bag on the hands and feet will help put it on as well.

This works great! It'll allow you to adjust the suit, and it'll move with you.

Hope you stay with it. I got certified at 50 last year and just did my 51st dive yesterday! WOO HOO!

 

[mrlipis]

Angela, I started diving at 53 and my wife joined me shortly after words. Your struggles may be closer to the norm than not, especially dealing with a 7mil farmer john. I am land locked as you are and our OW diving is done in New Mexico (Blue Hole) 63 degrees. Might I suggest you buy a skin, they run about 60 bucks and will make all the difference in the world in putting on that beast of a wetsuit. If you have the desire you will accomplish.

This leads me to one of my new pet peeves. A new diver gets a few hours in a pool and then is thrown in an open water situation without, IMO, enough pool time to become comfortable. As a catch 22 the dive shop won't let you practice in the pool unless you are certified and ultimately the student goes to his/her open water orientation feeling less than comfortable. Would love to see our Agencies, requiring a few more hours in the pool, prior to hitting open water.
Enough of the zero to hero OW certs.

Bruce

 

[irishsquid]

...This leads me to one of my new pet peeves. A new diver gets a few hours in a pool and then is thrown in an open water situation without, IMO, enough pool time to become comfortable. As a catch 22 the dive shop won't let you practice in the pool unless you are certified and ultimately the student goes to his/her open water orientation feeling less than comfortable. Would love to see our Agencies, requiring a few more hours in the pool, prior to hitting open water.
Enough of the zero to hero OW certs.
Bruce

This is not the case for all LDSs. I did my classes and pool work in Nov. 2006, and the OW dives in Apr. 2007. The LDS here allowed my brother and I (certifying @ same time) all the pool time we wanted with free airfills when the pool was available. This amounted easily to 3 times a week if I wanted. Their competitors across town offer the same (not sure about free airfills across town tho'.)

 

[spectrum]

So, in August, I'll work on my knee, snorkeling, flooding my mask in the pool (although I'm not quite sure how to clear it if I don't have weights on to stay under water. Maybe I'll have a friend put a hand on my shoulder while I kneel under water, but with the snorkel sticking up???)

Angela,

I was away at the start of this thread but I am so happy to read about your decision to work your way thorough this. Diving is an adaptation and it is a combination of mental reprogramming for many along with skills and the right adaptive gear. Some of us need a little more time to manage the transition.

I applaud your decision to spend some time skin-diving and here is why.

You can actually practice your mask clear right on the surface while you are snorkeling. You need to pay attention to snorkel tip but it's doable and then much easier when on a regulator. Try to think of doing skills while in a prone diving position, not kneeling in a pool or training platform.

Get a weight belt and set it up so you can dive down easily while still being safely buoyant on the surface. How much you need will depend on your wetsuit.

My wetsuit topic may also be helpful.

Visualization is a great tool. You have seen lots of diving, been in the gear, in the pool and you will be getting a peek at your local underwater world while skin-diving. I want you to put all of the good parts together in your mind and visualize yourself content on the surface, breathing at ease, releasing air fro your BC and gently falling down through the water like a leaf from a tree and stopping 3 feet from the bottom like Pinocchio on his strings. With a gentle kick you will cruise along the bottom and see the plant life and fish that can be interesting even in a North Dakota lake or pond. And if that does not give you goosebumps take the visualization to the tropics.

Don't push that injury, give things time and see if you can hook up with someone to be your mentor.Meanwhile the ScubaBoard members are pulling for you and will help in any way possible.

Pete

 

[Alice in Wonderland]

Angela, please don't give up!
Learning to dive in rough conditions, where it is about techniques, will make you a good diver and eventually you will be a better diver in clear conditions like in Mexico!
Practice makes comfortable and there are nice things to discover underwater. It is waiting for you!

:cheerleader: ANGELA :cheerleader:

 

[mrlipis]

This is not the case for all LDSs. I did my classes and pool work in Nov. 2006, and the OW dives in Apr. 2007. The LDS here allowed my brother and I (certifying @ same time) all the pool time we wanted with free airfills when the pool was available. This amounted easily to 3 times a week if I wanted. Their competitors across town offer the same (not sure about free airfills across town tho'.)

Was this pool time with an instructor or unsupervised?

Bruce

 

[ItsBruce]

Angela:

I'll echo what most others have said, but add two things:

1. Why bother trying to stand up for a shore entry or exit. Crawl. It is within the specifications of diving. It may not look cool, but it is easy and convenient. It is something we regularly practice. BTW: it is done with fins on. Entry: fins on, regulator in mouth, aim towards water, crawl; when the water is deep enough to kick (2 feet), kick slowly and evenly. After 15 yards or so, switch to your snorkle or roll onto your back. (Entering on compressed air is safer, but don't waste it by staying too long.) Exit: Aim for shore, keep one hand ahead of you to probe for rocks, swim until your knees hit bottom; crawl until you are well clear of the water.

2. Get your certification in cold water/at home. Then dive in warm water on vacations (just like everyone said). What you'll find, though, is that you'll suddenly have the urge to dive and there won't be any warm water or vacation. So, you'll dive where you can. And, you'll discover its not so bad and that you enjoy it.

 

[spectrum]

Angela:

I'll echo what most others have said, but add two things:

1. Why bother trying to stand up for a shore entry or exit. Crawl. It is within the specifications of diving. It may not look cool, but it is easy and convenient. It is something we regularly practice. BTW: it is done with fins on. Entry: fins on, regulator in mouth, aim towards water, crawl; when the water is deep enough to kick (2 feet), kick slowly and evenly. After 15 yards or so, switch to your snorkle or roll onto your back. (Entering on compressed air is safer, but don't waste it by staying too long.) Exit: Aim for shore, keep one hand ahead of you to probe for rocks, swim until your knees hit bottom; crawl until you are well clear of the water.

Unless we're talking about a rough water entry she's better of getting in and out of the water upright. The important thing is to don and latter remove fins in hip deep water where her partially inflated BC will keep her upright. Then she just walks out. If there are surf conditions (In N.D.?) then brace with your buddy and time things with the waves.

I would reserve crawling for a surprisingly nasty exit. If you need to crawl to get in then dive elsewhere or on another day.

I agree that unless the conditions are benign the regulator remains in the mouth and mask in place until past all risk.

Your "crawling in" rough water entry is valid but not what this new diver needs at this point IMO. It's much harder on the body and gear.

Pete

 

[Standingbear56]

This leads me to one of my new pet peeves. A new diver gets a few hours in a pool and then is thrown in an open water situation without, IMO, enough pool time to become comfortable. As a catch 22 the dive shop won't let you practice in the pool unless you are certified and ultimately the student goes to his/her open water orientation feeling less than comfortable. Would love to see our Agencies, requiring a few more hours in the pool, prior to hitting open water.
Enough of the zero to hero OW certs.

Bruce[/QUOTE]

Hi Bruce,
While I totally agree that a student should not go from pool to open water unless they feel comfortable, there may be some factors to take into mind. 1) Insurance will not allow a non certified student to use the pool without an instructor/divemaster present. This would not be a wise practice even if it was allowed. Most Dive Centers require a staff member to be present whenever anyone is in the pool, regardless of certification level. This may limit the use of the pool in some instances. 2) Ideally the last confined water session, or better yet, at least the last 2 sessions should be done if full O/W equipment if at all possible. This helps to ease the transition. 3) If a student does not feel comfortable with his/her skills, they should feel free to discuss this with the instructor. This is especially true if the student has not had time to practice in their full open water kit in confined water. There are way too many times that a student doesn't say anything, mistakenly thinking that if the instructor says they are ready, then they are. I always tell my students not to sign off on any skill(s) that THEY don't feel comfortable with. There have been many times that a student appears to have mastered a skill when in reality they are still unsure about it. This is a sad reality, but one we must deal with. The 2 things that would definitely help is 1) the instructor should talk to each student privately and see how the student feels about the skills and 2) give the student as much time as possible in full O/W kit before hitting the actual open water. Of course the best laid plans of mice and men.................
Safe Diving,
George
PADI MSDT

 

[Angela2932]

I'm really finding these comments and responses helpful in not only developing my plan, but now DOING my plan!

I was worried about trying the lap swims in the pool, with the fins, mask and snorkel, with my knee. Well, it turned out much better than I expected! During the week, I've done stretches my MD gave me, which have been hard, and with mixed results. Saturday, I went to the pool. It was great! I can do the lap swims, with the fins on; the weight of the fins is not hurting my knee; when I get out, I feel much, much better than before.

And here's the really weird thing. The locker room was deserted except for me and one other woman, who happened to have her locker right next to mine. I stumbled as I dressed, and knocked the bench over (I blame my knee!), and she kindly said something like,"oh, I'm klutzy after I've been swimming." I said, "nah, I hurt my knee." She started asking questions and it turns out she does therapeutic massages with people who are going through rehabilitation. I asked her about the stretches, that it feels good but only briefly, and that there's much pain in the back of my calf. She suggested an alternate way to do them, and how to get more information, about something called active isolated stretching. She's from a city about 350 miles away, so it really did seem like a fluke to run into her.

Long story still long, her suggestions helped a lot, and I went swimming again the next day (Sunday). This is going to work! I really made a point of flooding my mask as I swam, clearing it, (which I find difficult in the pool because of the position while snorkeling), but even if my masks floods, I don't see any reason why this should be distressing. I also (I know this is going to sound weird, but I'm just trying to find helpful things) tried swimming parts of the laps with my eyes closed, or squinted almost closed, to get more in a mindset that the OW dive COULD be really low visibility. Today I had a brainstorm and realized that if I just try this without wearing my contacts, I'll have much more limited visibility in the pool, and that should help me get more comfortable!

The more I do the snorkeling, the more I like being in the water. I especially like getting to the deep end and just "hanging" there for a few seconds. I'd stay that way longer, but I think I need to first warn the poor adolescent life guards who might think I'm floating dead in the pool. My daughter is already mortified when she considers I'm the only person in the pool with fins, snorkel and mask; she'd disown me if I get ask to leave because I've freaked out the staff!

I feel the best, physically, when I'm in the water, and I can forget about my knee and calf muscle. Spectrum, the visualization ideas may really work with this, particularly to just keep building the motivation to keep going. Since I know I'm repeating the pool portion early September, I'm thinking about the specific skills, and steps involved, as well as the future scenery. I have a DVD of diving in Saipan, and what I lack in imagination readily gets "primed" by this video. Plus, I like trying to watch how the divers are holding their arms, and legs. (I bought the DVD because my son has gone diving in Saipan; he's stationed in Japan.

My spouse, who had been supportive of my doing this initially, seems quite leery right now. I have to be careful to not go on "auto-pilot" and go along with his skepticism, but just doggedly keep taking steps to make this work. I'm also being careful to not grump to much about my knee, to fuel his wariness. And I don't blame him for feeling as he does right now about this.

I read somewhere that one way to keep from flailing your legs around when you descend is to cross them at the ankles. To see if this was actually doable for me, without losing my fins, I tried it a few times when I paused while snorkeling, and was quite manageable. Has anyone tried this while descending?

ItsBruce, I actually did end up in a crawl as I tried to exit the shore. I was in about a foot of water when I stood up, but that was when I scrunched my knee. I'm assuming the lack of depth of water to support the weight of the gear, and rising completely from ground level, was what caused me to twist my knee. The lake has a small climb to get out, so I had to stand up somewhere. I'm thinking I did take my fins off once the water was really shallow, because I remember that once I fell back in the water, and no one was around, I felt the only way I could get out of the water was to take the BC off, let go of my fins and mask, hope they didn't float away, and float the BC closer to shore (thinking the dive shop would not be pleased if I lost it!) Thankfully, my husband returned at this point, and I could hand him stuff while I tried to figure out how to stand on my leg and climb out. I wish I had paid attention to how the others in the class, when they surfaced, got out of the water, but I was trying to get my wet suit off by then. I think I saw them walking backwards with fins on, having stood earlier, and then getting fins off in the more shallow water, then taking off gear and setting it up on the land before climbing out.