Bulk of Whites Fusion Thermal

[buddhasummer]

Got to dive my new Santi drysuit over the weekend, my first drysuit and must say the learning curve wasn't as steep as I'd imagined. By no means perfect but I was expecting a higher level of difficulty.

I was using NorthFace base layer with a custom cut Santi BZ200. Water temp was around 14degrees/57f. I was chilly, not cold but chilly. I have a Halloween physique i.e skeletal so do feel the cold.

I spent a lot to dive dry so would like to be more comfortable. My hood is too large and wet gloves sucked. Smaller hood is on it's way and am considering buying some Kubi gloves if I can ever get hold of them, mails bounce back and phone goes straight to messaging service. Not actually sure if they are still in business or if site has been abandoned.

Sorry got side tracked, The point of my post, just how bulky is the whites fusion thermal? I read good things about its thermal properties and am considering wearing it under my BZ200 but am unsure if this is physically possible. If it's thin then I might be ok but if it's bulky I don't think it will fit under.

If it was significantly warmer than the BZ200 and/or won't fit under the BZ200 I would consider buying it as a stand alone.

Any insights or advice would be gratefully accepted. Cheers.

 

[KD8NPB]

The BZ200 is 190g/m2. You may want to upgrade to the BZ400, or switch to something like the 4th Element Arctic which is 500g/m2.

High 50s, I would be using my Arctic with an underarmor wicking layer and that's about it.
Low 50s / 40s, I supplement with a Xerotherm 250g underlayer above the wicking layer.

 

[buddhasummer]

The BZ200 is 190g/m2. You may want to upgrade to the BZ400, or switch to something like the 4th Element Arctic which is 500g/m2.

High 50s, I would be using my Arctic with an underarmor wicking layer and that's about it.
Low 50s / 40s, I supplement with a Xerotherm 250g underlayer above the wicking layer.

Thanks for the reply. I made the mistake, hindsight and all that, of asking they cut my suit for the BZ200 assuming for our water temps the BZ200 would be sufficient with a base layer. I'm not sure if my suit will accommodate the additional bulk of the BZ400. I'll contact Santi and make enquiries. How bulky is the 4th element Arctic and how cold tolerant are you. I really feel the cold. Cheers.

 

[TSandM]

The TF will almost certainly fit where the BZ200 goes, and it is much more equivalent to a 400g undergarment. I doubt you could get it under the BZ200, although you MIGHT be able to get it over one -- but I shudder at the weight required to sink THAT combination!

If you're looking for a very low profile, very warm undergarment, consider the 4th Element Halo. As long as you aren't going for double tank valves, it's a great UG with a very low profile.

 

[KD8NPB]

4th Element undergarments are extremely low bulk. Arctic + Xerotherm + Underarmor puts me at the same bulk I was at with a Bare Polarwear CT200 + wool underwear + Underarmor.

The 4th Element stuff is WAAYYY more flexible / stretchy. My valve drill skills improved).

I'm about 5'8", 158 lb, about 21 BMI.

You may also want to consider an Otter Bay 12mm hood or Waterproof 5/10mm hood.

 

[buddhasummer]

The TF will almost certainly fit where the BZ200 goes, and it is much more equivalent to a 400g undergarment. I doubt you could get it under the BZ200, although you MIGHT be able to get it over one -- but I shudder at the weight required to sink THAT combination!

If you're looking for a very low profile, very warm undergarment, consider the 4th Element Halo. As long as you aren't going for double tank valves, it's a great UG with a very low profile.

Thanks for the reply Lynne. I went from a 2kg weight belt in my 7mm wet to 6kg I the Santi with a BZ200, could possibly drop another kg.

Like you I'm pretty small and don't really want to have to carry an enormous amount of lead, I have no hips.

Having said that I'll take the weight if it means I'm warm. I really feel the cold so am looking, ideally, for the most warmth with the least weight.

I'm not sure how the Santi BZ400 compares to the Whites or 4th Element Halo in terms of warmth.

---------- Post added January 15th, 2014 at 12:44 PM ----------

4th Element undergarments are extremely low bulk. Arctic + Xerotherm + Underarmor puts me at the same bulk I was at with a Bare Polarwear CT200 + wool underwear + Underarmor.

The 4th Element stuff is WAAYYY more flexible / stretchy. My valve drill skills improved).

I'm about 5'8", 158 lb, about 21 BMI.

You may also want to consider an Otter Bay 12mm hood or Waterproof 5/10mm hood.

As I only dive single tanks the ability to reach valves is not important to me. Santi sent me a large sized hood, no idea why, a smaller hood has been requested. I'm hoping a well fitting hood and some decent gloves will add to overall comfort.

I've heard great things about waterproof hoods and am currently talking to DRIS about ordering an XS and a S Waterproof Polar 5/10mm hood. I'm currently borrowing one but it's an M and is a little big on me.

Unfortunately I can't afford both dry gloves and another undergarment at the same time so have decided the undergarment takes priority. In the interim I've ordered some whites wet gloves which I'm sure will be better than the wet gloves I'm currently using.

 

[KD8NPB]

I guarantee the Halo 3D is the hottest (not warmest! lol) undergarment listed.

I was absolutely comfortable in 37F water with mine with the xerotherm underlayer.

However, the Halo 3D does have some bulk in the chest and back thanks to the non-compression panels (translation, warm chest!). The arms and legs are about equal to the Arctic, so you don't get a huge loss of mobility.

It is pricey though. About $575 MSRP.

 

[TSandM]

I have found the MK3, TF and Halo to be roughly equivalent. The MK3 may be a tad bit warmer than the TF, but it's way floatier (probably at least 4 pounds). I did an uncontrolled experiment up at God's Pocket a couple of years ago, where I took both the MK3 and Halo and switched off between them, so I got to dive each as a first dive of the day, second, and last dive. I decided there was no noticeable difference between them, although the Halo was easier to get into, and easier to get into the suit, because it was less bulky. It does not, however, have the lovely butt zipper or the nicely placed chest zipper compartment for keys. The TF is the hardest to get into of all of them (it would be easier if I didn't insist on wearing a base layer under it) and has only hand-warmer pockets, which are not a very secure place to put keys, but it is the least bulky and requires the least weight, and I think it's ALMOST comparable in warmth.

I'm a total cold wuss -- I do a lot of macro photography and I never swim very fast, so I get cold quickly, and I hate being cold. I find all three of those undergarments are workable in water in the mid-40's here, if I'm careful about thermal unit conservation before and after the dive. I would assume the Santi 400g undergarment is very similar. I've never worn one, but I've felt them -- because of the Thinsulate paneling, they're a bit stiffer than the MK3 or Halo, and I try to avoid Thinsulate where I can, because I end up washing my undergarments all too frequently. She-Ps are a great invention, but not foolproof . . .

 

[KathyIGH]

Hi -

This is Kathy with DUI - Diving Unlimited. I came across your post. My impression is that you are fairly new to dry diving. I thought you might find these two links helpful:

DUI Thermal Guidelines For Drysuit Diving | DUI Online
Layering- An Approach to Comfort | DUI Online

We do have our new BlueHeat - electrically heated divewear. My understanding is that this system will be available at this years DEMOTOURs. I'm sure you could try one with your drysuit.

Thanks so much -

Kathy

 

[kmurray719]

I find the Halo to be much more streamlined than the Fusion Thermals, which makes my suit much easier to don. But that may be due to the fact that the TF just doesn't fit me well and everything was never quite where it was supposed to be, so YMMV.