If you look at diving with a buddy as a skill, then it is easy to see that diving with a buddy group of 3 is more difficult than diving with a buddy group of 2. If one does not see it this way, then one is not using the buddy system properly. If all 3 people have excellent buddy skills, a group of 3 is ok. Otherwise, it is a bad idea.
Buddy System
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If you look at diving with a buddy as a skill, then it is easy to see that diving with a buddy group of 3 is more difficult than diving with a buddy group of 2. If one does not see it this way, then one is not using the buddy system properly. If all 3 people have excellent buddy skills, a group of 3 is ok. Otherwise, it is a bad idea.
elan
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Not necessarily. I often dive 3-person buddy teams with my students. They don't have excellent buddy skills ... yet. What qualifies them to dive this manner is a willingness to learn those buddy skills.
Being a good dive buddy is more about attitude than skill ... skills can be acquired through practice.
A three-person buddy team takes no more effort than a two-person buddy team ... it just takes a bit more awareness of what's going on around you, and a bit of knowledge about how to "swim to be seen" ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
---------- Post Merged at 06:05 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 06:00 AM ----------
You missed your safety stop coming from 100 ft.. Its not an emergency so there is no excuse to miss it
You or your buddy gone missing after the time the gas reserve is exhausted before that time you are on a diveand just got separated.
It's situation-dependent, as usual ... but if you and your buddy are separated, then it may well be or become an emergency. If there's current, or if conditions are bad on the surface, then skipping the safety stop may well be preferable ... especially if you're interested in maximizing your chances of reuniting on the surface.
As long as you're within NDL's, a safety stop is optional. What matters more is controlling your ascent rate, and remembering to breathe as you ascend. That latter may seem like common sense, but in the real world, a buddy separation causes some people a lot of stress ... and stress tends to make people fall back on instinctive behavior, which can hurt you bad underwater.
The other thing to keep in mind is that when you've lost your buddy, you're diving alone. If you're not prepared to be self-sufficient, then doing a safety stop may become more risky than not doing one. You always have to weigh the circumstances of the dive and consider the risks. Skipping a safety stop ... even on a 100-foot ascent ... presents little real risk if you've managed your ascent rate properly. Depending on your gas reserves, diving conditions, and your state of mind at the time, stopping to take one might create more risk than it resolves ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
Good idea ! (not!)... A buddy missing is not a buddy in dying distress per se... Sounding alarms everytime this happens, will not really benefit divers in general. It's like crying wolf once to many...
---------- Post Merged at 02:18 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 02:11 PM ----------
Every 30 seconds ?
How about diving the plan and sticking with it. Lost sight of your buddy, if you both follow the plan you meet up in no time. If you are any bit aware, you will know whether you buddy was behind you or in front of you so you will know if you should hurry or wait up.
There is absolutely no sense in immediately starting your 1 minute search the moment you realize you buddy is out of your sight.
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I watched it happen … standing on the beach at one of my favorite dive sites and looking out I saw a lone diver surface. Watching to see what he’s up to I watch him look around for a couple of minutes, then submerge. A few seconds later, another lone diver surfaces 100 feet away. He does the same thing. A few seconds later the first diver pops back to the surface again. I holler out and tell him to wait on the surface … his dive buddy will be right back. He waits, and in a few minutes, the two are reunited ...
NWGratefulDiver.com
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
Are you actually a padi instructor? The reason I ask is that this is exactly what is taught in the padi OW course. I know that some insta-buddies may be different, but, if my buddy and I are sepperated, and he is not in distress, I expect that I will be reunited with him within this time frame, because I know he is doing exactly the same thing as me.
How often does this happen to you and your buddy that you would consider it crying wolf to start a lost diver recall?
Bob DBF
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The problem, as you say, is in a divers attitude towards buddy or team diving.
The primary diver focus should be on your buddy and not on what you want to do on the dive. Where the buddy system breaks down is when one diver unilaterally decides his adjenda is more important than than the team. When it is only one diver that does it the other just gets pi**ed about the lack of consideration, when both divers do it you have diver seperation. This is why photographers and speros are so beloved.
Working out the details of how you buddy without verbally committing to the team initially is why people constantly run into bad buddies and find it takes a long time to run across a good buddy.
For those who don't know, I am not DIR or UTD, nor do I play one on U-Tube. I have dived solo since I started diving, but when going into any hostile environment your first obligation is to return with the people you set out with regardless of the number.
The buddy system is not hard, that is why it is used.
Bob
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A man's got to know his limitations.
Harry Callahan
Yes I am... And i know it is in the book... in practice, it is just not the right thing to do. What isn't in the book is the fact that separation does not mean instant death. So panic is not needed. Follow the plan and if you still haven't found each other in a reasonable amount of time (this is visibility, current and environment dependent), surface and STAY surfaced. Also make sure that is what you agree upon before the dive. Plan the dive and dive the plan. If the plan falls apart, don't do a thing untill you both agree and are sure you are on the same page. Communication is the keyword.
I have never had to start a lost diver search. When separated I would find him or her where I expected him or her to be. Either in front of me, behind me or at the surface.
Remember books aren't allways right...
cascas:
Does that sound so strange? Except when I am taking a picture, I'm sure I note my buddy's position and general state of being at least that often. Of course, in murky water, we use lights, and I may only verify the position and behavior of my buddy's light, but it's part of my constant scan of my diving environment -- depth, time, buddy, fish . . . I had that burned into me by a whole BUNCH of team-oriented diving courses. Once you have internalized the pattern, it's no burden. And nobody gets away from me very easily, which is nice, because we dive in such low viz.
First, I am not talking about panic. I am talking about a protocal that defines exactly when a lost diver search is to begin. It clearly defines time frames that are to be used, so there is no doubt about what to do next. I personally start the clock after I have done a full 360 turn, looking up, down, and horizontally. I have never gone longer than 30 seconds.
Second, I think it is absolute insanity that instructors and dive operations teach one protocol, and then don't bother to follow it because they somehow know better. We have standards for a reason. If you don't like a standard, you should be having conversations with your certifying body to get the standard changed.
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