Buddy Air Balancing?

[scubafool]

Never saw that thread.

Mike, what size pony would you consider it to be expected?

JR

That depends on a lot of variables. The depth you are at, your air consumption rate (multiplied by at least a factor of two), what kind of stops you would want to do on your way up, whether or not you have a pressure gauge that you can see on your pony, whether or not you can safely ascend straight up at any time in your dive, what ascent rate you would be comfortable with, etc.

 

[rakkis]

What agency doesn't advocate practicing air ahares?

An air share as defined by the agencies is a way to deal with an unexpected low/out of air situation You share your air and END THE DIVE. You do not use it as a way to extend your bottom time and continue. That is the prudent air sharing that is advocated by the agencies. (And I'm all for practicing it every now and then, btw).

Think back to when you started out.........wasn't everything your instructor said/showed/instructed in some form assumed to be correct, safe and 'gospel'? That is the issue here, not where we are talking about somewha experienced divers, who are able to manage gas, know what they need t get up. This 'buddy balancing' seems to be taught as part of OW, where people just start out. It potentially sets new divers on a dangerous path.

Exactly my point.

 

[redacted]

An air share as defined by the agencies is a way to deal with an unexpected low/out of air situation You share your air and END THE DIVE. You do not use it as a way to extend your bottom time and continue. That is the prudent air sharing that is advocated by the agencies. (And I'm all for practicing it every now and then, btw).

So, is the problem that air sharing is such a dangerous task that it should only be undertaken in emergency situations (and practiced only every now and then).

I always thought we did best at what we practiced most often.

 

[Thalassamania]

So, is the problem that air sharing is such a dangerous task that it should only be undertaken in emergency situations (and practiced only every now and then).

I always thought we did best at what we practiced most often.

I practice air sharing on EVERY DIVE and always have.

 

[MikeFerrara]

An air share as defined by the agencies is a way to deal with an unexpected low/out of air situation You share your air and END THE DIVE. You do not use it as a way to extend your bottom time and continue. That is the prudent air sharing that is advocated by the agencies. (And I'm all for practicing it every now and then, btw).

Really? The agency you teach through doesn't require a shared air swim?

Sometimes it is not prudent or even possible to make a direct ascent do to boat traffic, currents, kelp or other real overhead obstructions. Don't recreational agencies even teach ice diving, wreck diving and even cavern diving without requireing redundant breathing systems? Any one of those is going to require some amount of horizontal swimming while sharing air prior to being able to make an ascent.

I would not tell OW students to run their air down and then share to extend their dive but assuming adequate reserve gas in both tanks I defy you to show how air sharing is any real risk at all.

My wife and I do quit a bit of diving while sharing gas. I figure it's good practice incase we ever need to make it a long way out of a cave or wreck while doing so.

 

[TSandM]

Really, what are the objections?

1. You're using up your emergency air. This will not occur if you are respectful of rock bottom volumes.

2. Air-sharing is dangerous. How? Yes, you now have someone breathing off a regulator that comes from someone else's tank. But if you pull apart (something which shouldn't occur if you are both skilled and careful) it is NO different from losing your own regulator. You simply retrieve your own and put it in your mouth. And, if you are using a long hose setup, that's as simple as putting your necklaced secondary in your mouth, which is trivial.

3. It's encouraging a cavalier attitude toward gas supplies. I don't understand this one at all. If proper gas planning has been done, the management of the discretionary supply of air has been handled on land before the dive begins, and anything you do with the gas underwater should fit that plan.

I posted last fall about this attitude that "If you're sharing air, the dive is OVER and you immediately ascend." There are places and times when an immediate ascent is NOT desirable. I had one in Nanaimo, where surface current was strong, and surfacing where we ran into our problem (not an OOA) was a last-ditch option. So we did an exit, remaining underwater until we returned to the vicinity of the boat. It's not at all a bad thing to be comfortable doing that.

 

[Thalassamania]

Really, what are the objections?.. It's not at all a bad thing to be comfortable doing that.

What Comrade Diver Lynne said!

 

[95yj]

While I realize this is not always the case due to physiology, etc. most of the time a diver who is breathing fast enough to shorten their air time is not the most experienced diver in the first place. As we become more experienced, we learn to take long deep slow breaths and minimize unnecessary movement and therefore use less air. Most of the divers I have who are using air faster than they should be is due to lack of experience or not carring about air management. Is this someone you want to buddy breath with? Of course this has nothing to do with the 6'4 230lb guy diving with his 102lb wife. Now, all this said, I have brought divers to 15' and and then had them breath on my octo for the swim back to the boat when they failed to give a 1/2 tank signal and all the sudden showed a guage that read 600 psi. This while there was another instructor/dm on the dive to take care of the other OWs. I justified this becuase the surface swim to the boat would have been difficult at best and we both got a safety stop in. Upon reaching the boat, I had the diver ascend on their own air supply. The whole time, I made sure everything was under control and if anything went wrong, we only had a short swim to the surface.

But teach this to OW divers before they even have their C-card. I don't think so.

 

[Charlie99]

I often do a proacive air share / air balancing with insta-buddies that have higher air consumption. Usually on the 2nd dive of the day after we have discussed it on the boat.

Rock bottom, ascent pressures, and turn pressures are still observed. The sharing is done relatively early in the dive. Any other divers in the group are warned that we will be doing it. This has worked well with several insta-buddies, including relatively new divers.

I see no fundamental difference between proactive, early air sharing in this manner; and diving with a buddy that has an AL100 while I have an AL80. With the air sharing/equalization, the transfer of more gas to my buddy just takes place real time underwater rather than through having different tank sizes.

Charlie Allen

 

[Cacia]

Another advantage with a regular partner, is you tend to become acutely aware of how/when they are using their air. (because you are almost constantly watching the gauge on an air share, at least I do). Once your partner begins to use more or less, you are either aware of the reason, or you start looking for the reason...for example: I know I am better on air than JB, by far, but he is more efficient in current. Being aware of the nuances of each other's air consumption, makes our planning more accurate. (which, I admit is sometimes done "on-going" with our irreducible minimum, or rock bottom a constant.)

Still, we have been pretty successful. I don't think either of us, when diving together, have ever ascended with less than 500 psi. part of the reason, is that we are very aware of the other's consumption. I have over 1000 dives, he has maybe 100.

We constantly say OW divers should have the bar set higher. But when an Instructor makes the decision to put a more challenging skill "out there" even for discussion or to make divers aware, they get pounced as somehow irresponsible.

I think, like solo diving, they should mention things that are done by some divers, while stressing considerations regarding experience and possible dangers. The instructor saying "Learn to manage your own air and bouyancy first if you take this on down the road"....most reasonable people "get that".

I guess technically, PADI doesn't want them saying that...like buddy breathing.