BSAC and DIR

[dbulmer]

LimeyX,String
AFAIK BSAC does not allow the teaching of long hose donation until the trainee has passed Ocean diver. That said, there are plenty of BSAC people who demonstrate its use after initial training but I think the standard is for the OOA candidate to reach for an octopus.

Another thing (again training wise - as String has already said after training is a different matter) is that AFAIK BSAC mandates use of BSAC88 tables.Gue trained folks would not be using these tables.In the SAA we use a different set of tables (modified Buhlmann) but again DIR folks have a different approach.

On the subject of boats - our club used to have a RIB but got rid of it because only a small minority did the work and/or were qualified to do so and the maintenance costs were high. In our club all the DIR folks have twinsets so hardboats are a more attractive proposition.

Unlike Strings club, about half of our club is on BP/W and about 90% use the long hose. As you point out the kit is a small % of DIR. Although I'm trained in SAA and PADI tables my deco planning is more on the lines of GUE ascent profiles (when I get things right, that is


At recreational level the DIR divers are quite happy to point out areas that a club diver can improve at - it usually goes along the lines of - "Your buoyancy was crap, trim do you know what that is? - well thank God I survived !" - all good banter and part of club diving. If you do something silly you'll be given a good reason why it's not a good idea after the dive. One thing we don't do is argue underwater, or do training drills on boat dives at sea. A sea dive is for fun - quarry/pool dives are for training and skill maintenance largely over the winter months. At recreational level a degree of latitude is given.

On deco dives it's quite simple. You prove your competency in the shallows. If you are not competent you will not be diving with the DIR folks.

 

[String]

LimeyX,String
AFAIK BSAC does not allow the teaching of long hose donation until the trainee has passed Ocean diver. That said, there are plenty of BSAC people who demonstrate its use after initial training but I think the standard is for the OOA candidate to reach for an octopus.

Im going through the instructor manual here but theres no mention as to a long hose either way so its unclear.
The required equipment is a "main demand valve and alternate air source demand valve". Depending how you read this it could be saying you cannot donate primary. This is for all grade courses. To me this would preclude long hose teaching.

There is however nothing against using wings, one piece harnesses and so on. Ditchable weight is also mandatory.

In truth the manual is so vague in places you could probably get away with no end of ridiculous interpretations.

On the subject of boats - our club used to have a RIB but got rid of it because only a small minority did the work and/or were qualified to do so and the maintenance costs were high.

It is an issue and the same here. The few of us that do the work do it purely so we can dive cheaply (£12 instead of charter £40 for example)

In our club all the DIR folks have twinsets so hardboats are a more attractive proposition.

True but would make a lot of diving unaffordable for a lot. FWIW ive been told i cannot dive with a twinset on club boats. Im struggling to see the logic given that others will be taking 2 x 12l tanks for 2 single tank dives.

Unlike Strings club, about half of our club is on BP/W and about 90% use the long hose.

I turned up with a tank marked Nitrox in the pool one week and got the "why do you need that stuff its dangerous" lecture. I turned up in a wing and got told its dangerous (cant rescue you, cant tow you, will roll on face, its less comfortable) and that was by a national instructor. Turned up with a tank of nitrox AND a wing and i think most people were expecting me to drown within 5 seconds of getting into the pool.

As you said, not all clubs are alike, some will be far more welcoming than others regarding kit,styles and so on. I do know of several bsac clubs that have DIR divers as members but also several that could never have.

 

[SparticleBrane]

I turned up with a tank marked Nitrox in the pool one week and got the "why do you need that stuff its dangerous" lecture. I turned up in a wing and got told its dangerous (cant rescue you, cant tow you, will roll on face, its less comfortable) and that was by a national instructor. Turned up with a tank of nitrox AND a wing and i think most people were expecting me to drown within 5 seconds of getting into the pool.

Ignorance is bliss...

 

[jeckyll]

Ignorance is bliss...

It really isn't, or there would be more happy people in the world

 

[dbulmer]

String,
(apologies to DIR members here) I think if you go to the BSAC site you'll find the BSAC stance is against long hose for training. I know of many BSAC members that do use the long hose but I think that the vast majority of BSAC instructors even those of a DIR disposition teach standard DV and alternate DV.

As for hard boat diving yes you're right about the cost maybe that's one of the reasons we are a small club

 

[limeyx]

Ignorance is bliss...

Ignorance of what?

 

[String]

String,
(apologies to DIR members here) I think if you go to the BSAC site you'll find the BSAC stance is against long hose for training. I know of many BSAC members that do use the long hose but I think that the vast majority of BSAC instructors even those of a DIR disposition teach standard DV and alternate DV.

I know for a fact a lot of them are against long hose etc (and the flexibility in the system means instructors at a local level can introduce rules in addition to agency standards - im not allowed to teach in my wing for example).

However despite this looking at the exact wording in the manual some things are far from clear.

I can think of one poor guy that turned up at a rescue managment course a few years ago with halcyon wing and long hose and got chewed out by the instructor for "silly dangerous kit" and then "why you have a cave diving setup for a marina?". As i said, the way the system works it allowed people at a local level to introduce rules/restrictions that arent official agency wide.

I suspect we're going off topic now on a DIR only forum

(sorry)

 

[johnkendall]

This is a subject that I know a bit about, being both a GUE Instructor and a BSAC Instructor. There is nothing written in the manuals about not using a long hose, or primary donate. However it has been said that Primary donate should not be taught before "standard AAS use" is taught. However since there is nothing written anywhere about this in BSAC that's open to interpretation.

The theory of a dive club based around Mentoring is great, and you do tend to get divers coming out of the training with more confidence and experience. The downside is about Quality Control. At no point during my BSAC instructor training was I really tested to see what my personal skill level was like, and so as long as you are effective at teaching, you can get away with being pretty poor in the water. Once you have passed the exam, there is NO quality control other than within your own branch, and so you will tend to get groups of instructors who all do stuff their own way, with no kind of standard at all across the board. This is both good and bad, it means that if you aspire to having better skills, and teaching more efficiently then you are able to do so, but it also means that the majority of dive clubs don't ever get any outside views of how they do stuff.

DIR can easily exist within a BSAC framework, but only if those locally decide that they want it to. I am lucky as I am part of a university club, and so we have a lot of young, intellegent club members who will judge things on merrit rather than just because someone says it's good.

If anyone has any questions about it please get in touch.

Thanks
John

 

[dbulmer]

Thanks John
It's nice to know the facts.