Breaking news from the whale wars

[cdreamer]

Saspotato,
I'm glad most Australians don't agree with you.


Battle for whales too weak, poll finds

 

[Sas]

Saspotato,
I'm glad most Australians don't agree with you.


Battle for whales too weak, poll finds

I don't agree with most Australians on all sorts of topics, so that does not surprise me.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Yes they do have IWC permits, for scientific research, that they are allowed to issue to themselves. This comes under Article VIII of the 1946 Convention and is found on the IWC website. Japan is in the IWC you know, and can issue permits under the IWC rules.

This is kind of what I mean about control. You have repeatedly taken people to task in this thread for not knowing what you are arguing about, but if you had enough control to actually read what you think you are arguing about you might actually see that it is really you who don't know what you are arguing about.

Article VIII

1. Notwithstanding anything contained in this Convention any Contracting Government may grant to any of its nationals a special permit authorizing that national to kill, take and treat whales for purposes of scientific research subject to such restrictions as to number and subject to such other conditions as the Contracting Government thinks fit, and the killing, taking, and treating of whales in accordance with the provisions of this Article shall be exempt from the operation of this Convention. Each Contracting Government shall report at once to the Commission all such authorizations which it has granted. Each Contracting Government may at any time revoke any such special permit which it has granted.

2. Any whales taken under these special permits shall so far as practicable be processed and the proceeds shall be dealt with in accordance with directions issued by the Government by which the permit was granted.

The IWC has never issued Japan a permit to kill whales for any reason. Japan issues the permit, in essence to itself. I have said this over and over, yet you can not read anything that you do not believe evidently.

If you look at the press releases of all the IWC annual meetings since 2000, you will find that there are only years where the IWC left the issue open without making a statement, but there are more years where the IWC asked the Japanese to not continue the issuing of the research permits. The IWC has not as far as I have found ever condoned the supposed research permits Japan issues to itself.

IWC Annual Press Releases

 

[ScubaSteve]

At 20 seconds from impact the SM made a hard turn starboard and without that turn there would have been no collision.

Why is it you find it impossible to open you closed mind to the possibility that the AG would have simply had to have sped a little farther in order to get sunk to help with their ratings?

 

[Sas]

This is kind of what I mean about control. You have repeatedly taken people to task in this thread for not knowing what you are arguing about, but if you had enough control to actually read what you think you are arguing about you might actually see that it is really you who don't know what you are arguing about.

You are trying to prove this point by quoting me, where I say exactly what you have said here:

The IWC has never issued Japan a permit to kill whales for any reason. Japan issues the permit, in essence to itself. I have said this over and over, yet you can not read anything that you do not believe evidently.

If you look at the press releases of all the IWC annual meetings since 2000, you will find that there are only years where the IWC left the issue open without making a statement, but there are more years where the IWC asked the Japanese to not continue the issuing of the research permits. The IWC has not as far as I have found ever condoned the supposed research permits Japan issues to itself.

IWC Annual Press Releases

Wha???????

I said to refresh your memory (though you did quote it so you shouldn't have forgotten):

Yes they do have IWC permits, for scientific research, that they are allowed to issue to themselves. This comes under Article VIII of the 1946 Convention and is found on the IWC website. Japan is in the IWC you know, and can issue permits under the IWC rules.

Japan is allowed to issue themselves permits for scientific research as part of the rules of the IWC. I even said that they issue them to themselves but that this is sanctioned by the IWC as part of its rules when founded.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

You are trying to prove this point by quoting me, where I say exactly what you have said here:



Wha???????

I said to refresh your memory (though you did quote it so you shouldn't have forgotten):



Japan is allowed to issue themselves permits for scientific research as part of the rules of the IWC. I even said that they issue them to themselves but that this is sanctioned by the IWC as part of its rules when founded.

As I said you are unable to read before replying. That article is a hold over from the IWRC and if you look at the linked IWC annual releases page and look at the press release from the IWC for each year from 2000 to 2009 you will find that the IWC has repeatedly condemned the Japanese for issuing the research permits. A few years the do not make a statement other that to say they are looking into it, but most years the IWC tells Japan they should not issue the permit. None of Japans research permits has ever been approved by the IWC.

 

[Sas]

As I said you are unable to read before replying. That article is a hold over from the IWRC and if you look at the linked IWC annual releases page and look at the press release from the IWC for each year from 2000 to 2009 you will find that the IWC has repeatedly condemned the Japanese for issuing the research permits. A few years the do not make a statement other that to say they are looking into it, but most years the IWC tells Japan they should not issue the permit. None of Japans research permits has ever been approved by the IWC.

IWC has no choice in the matter as it is part of their rules that countries can issue scientific permits to themselves. I know other countries in the IWC condemn Japan for it but they brought it on themselves by allowing that loophole initially.

 

[StevenN]

Nice to see the mod has stepped in and straightened everything out!

 

[Sas]

Here is what the IWC has to say about all this (Scientific permits)

Here are some quotes you might find of relevance:

A major area of discussion in recent years has been the issuing of permits by member states for the killing of whales for scientific purposes. The use of such permits is not new. The right to issue them is enshrined in Article VIII of the 1946 Convention. Whilst member nations must submit proposals for review, in accordance with the Convention, it is the member nation that ultimately decides whether or not to issue a permit, and this right overrides any other Commission regulations including the moratorium and sanctuaries. Article VIII also requires that the animals be utilised once the scientific data have been collected.

ince the ‘moratorium’ came into effect after 1986, Japan, Norway and Iceland have issued scientific permits as part of their research programmes. In recent years, only Japan and Iceland have issued permits. Recent discussions have centred on accusations that such permits have been issued merely as a way around the moratorium decision; these have been countered by claims that the catches are essential to obtain information necessary for rational management and other important research needs. All proposed permits have to be submitted for review by the Scientific Committee following Guidelines issued by the Commission but the ultimate responsibility for their issuance lies with the member nation.

While the Commission cannot interfere with the right of a member nation to issue a permit, it can comment on the permit, after receiving the report of the Scientific Committee. In recent years, the Commission has passed a number of Resolutions asking governments to refrain from issuing specific permits. These discussions are usually contentious and the Resolutions passed by relatively small majorities (see below).

You might also want to read of the conclusions of the IWC review board of the JAPRA whaling program:

In conclusion, the Committee concurred with the view of the 1997 workshop that ‘The results of the JARPA programme, while not required for management under the RMP, have the potential to improve management of minke whales in the Southern Hemisphere’ in a number of ways. As has been the case in past Committee discussions on of the respective merits of lethal and non-lethal methodology, it was not possible to reach consensus amongst the participants.

They have issued and passed resolutions requesting Japan not whale under the JARPA II program,

In 2007 the Commission passed a Resolution asking Japan to refrain from issuing a permit for JARPA II by 40 votes in favour, 2 votes against and 1 abstention; 27 countries decided not to participate in the vote as they believed that the submission of the proposal was not conducive to building bridges within the Commission.

however Japan is not required to submit to this.

 

[Sas]

Nice to see the mod has stepped in and straightened everything out!

Stop reading StevenN, if you think this is boring. It's really simple.