Break Water wins 2-0

[bbianchi]

I was at the breakwater that day the video was made. Was supposed to dive the barge, but as you can see had all of us on doubles (up to double 130's) attempted to even get on the steps it'd been over. Why anyone wouldn't cancel a class on a day like that is beyond me. Part of your O/W class is to get you to ENJOY diving. Ill be a majority of the students in this class didn't enjoy much of that day. Its somewhat unfair to them honestly.

 

[ae3753]

Why anyone wouldn't cancel a class on a day like that is beyond me. Part of your O/W class is to get you to ENJOY diving. Ill be a majority of the students in this class didn't enjoy much of that day. Its somewhat unfair to them honestly.

It's definitely unfair to the students and to our local diving.

If my O/W experience was a rough surf entry where I had to be dragged through the waves, bobbing in a strong swell trying to catch my breath, and later getting pummeled underneath in < 5' viz in 54 degree water, I doubt that I'd dive Monterey ever again.

 

[ae3753]

But I've found that exits are a bit different than entries (and are typically quite a bit more expedited since you aren't fighting the breakers as much), and I'd have to wonder how many DMs/instructors are telling their students, "You really shouldn't dive in these conditions, but I'm taking you in so you'll know how to handle yourselves if you find them thrust upon you while exiting." Between the two options, I personally think the more valuable lesson is knowing when to call the dive from the parking lot.

Here's how I'd do it -

Rec 1 or the 1st day of Essentials - I'd call the dive in the parking lot and explain that diving is supposed to be fun. And those conditions != fun.

Rec 2 - If the students are willing, I'd say something similar to what you wrote. You should not be diving these conditions, but let's go and experience these conditions and we'll learn to handle exits and entries.

Rec 3 - I won't say a word and see what decision the students make on their own. And then we'd debrief and dissect the decision and the dive in detail.

Intro-to-Tech - I'd chase the students into the water with my blunt tipped knife... j/k.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

The Breakwater can actually be a fairly treacherous place when the swell gets high especially with a long interval. Many people think "Oh, it's only the Breakwater, it's the bunny hill". Yeah that's true when swell is low with knee highs, but get waist or chest high waves and it really changes. Some of that is due to the long slope of the beach and also how some wave energy is funneled in by the breakwall. The speed in which the water comes in and pulls back out can be deceiving and take many people right off their feet even when it doesn't look that bad from the parking lot.
Putting fins on on the beach and trying and walk through it is even harder. There are ways to deal with getting through surf like this for those that like to test their surf entrie skills. Me, I prefer to stay on shore now and watch.

Mask on with mask strap tight, reg in mouth, and fins in hand with a tight grip, walk out and stay low with a fairly wide stance, when waves come in stop and plant firmly and let wave blast by, as wave goes by continue moving in, when waist high get fins on as rapidly as possible, dive in seaward and kick like hell!!. If you have to use your arms to swim along with using fins so be it, the main objective is to get through the surf and out. If you fail and it doesn't happen then it obviously is too big and you failed, so now you know your limit.
If you get pounded and rolled, get upright as soon as possible and crawl out on your hands and knees. keep the reg in your mouth at all times. The most vulnerable and worst position to be in is upside down face up getting pounded by surf.

When you get to safety and catch your breath decide if you want to continue. If you have any doubts, go home, it's not worth it.

The good thing about Breakwater for this type of training is it's pretty hard to get really hurt. You might suck a little water and lose some stuff but there are more times than not lots of people around to drag you out if you really get in trouble.
Of course if someone is not in the greatest physical shape or doesn't have the physical stamina to try big surf entries then they need to self evaluate and reconsider. It also helps to ratchet up training and not attempt something too big too soon.

But to take beginning divers out in those conditions like in the video is silly and just wrong.
That divemaster should have gotten the diver back to the beach to regroup and try it again from the beginning not try and drag them out further. Looking at the skill level of those divers they should have never attempted that dive.

Trying to get in with fins on in conditions like that doesn't work. If you get your feet taken out from under you it's too hard to get back up. At least if you are running in without fins on right away and get pounded or rolled you can stand up and get out.
The worst that's going to happen is if you lose your grip on your fins you might lose one, but then if you are attempting to go diving in those conditions you should be prepared for that.


Sounds like you had fun anyway Mike, and had an excellent training session in large wave management.

 

[mikeguerrero]

:wavey: Raises hand
Lesson learned always keep your reg in your mouth. I didn't have mine in and never expected to fall. Not a comfortable feeling being tossed around with a lot of weight on your back.

(I think you took the words out of my mouth with that statement, the weight pulls you down to the bottom whether you like it or not, you are going down!)

Not something I never care to repeat. If we would have waited a few minutes outside the surf zone we probably would have been in safer conditions for exiting but it was ugly. The current that came up was so strong we could barely swim against it as it tried to drag us down towards BW. It kept pushing us into the rocks on the side. When we entered the water there was probably 20 feet of beach exposed. During the exit it was hitting the buildings. Crazy how fast conditions can change.

(Another brilliant quote, I never care to repeat it EVER!, there is safety just outside the surf zone, I spoke to an instructor that led in two divers that day, and he stated, "just wait until the waves come in and pound, wait till the set ends, then pull off the fins when you can touch bottom, if the surf is there, do not touch the bottom, that is when the accident will occur, wait just outside the surf zone, don't rush it because it will just lead to bad timming.)

It's definitely unfair to the students and to our local diving.

If my O/W experience was a rough surf entry where I had to be dragged through the waves, bobbing in a strong swell trying to catch my breath, and later getting pummeled underneath in < 5' viz in 54 degree water, I doubt that I'd dive Monterey ever again.

(Don, that is how I felt, thanks for sharing)

Mask on with mask strap tight, reg in mouth, and fins in hand with a tight grip, walk out and stay low with a fairly wide stance, when waves come in stop and plant firmly and let wave blast by, as wave goes by continue moving in, when waist high get fins on as rapidly as possible, dive in seaward and kick like hell!!. If you have to use your arms to swim along with using fins so be it, the main objective is to get through the surf and out. If you fail and it doesn't happen then it obviously is too big and you failed, so now you know your limit.
If you get pounded and rolled, get upright as soon as possible and crawl out on your hands and knees. keep the reg in your mouth at all times. The most vulnerable and worst position to be in is upside down face up getting pounded by surf.

(Your quote explains, exactly what happened to me and how I managed to escape the wrath of King Tritan or Neptune or whomever the Ocean God is, he got me that day and woke me up.)

Sounds like you had fun anyway Mike, and had an excellent training session in large wave management.

(Thanks for calling it fun, it felt like hell until I crawled out and got my breath, I then smiled and could call it fun, once I was on dry land, but not while I was in the ocean.)

MG

 

[Jim Ernst]

I was at the breakwater that day the video was made. Was supposed to dive the barge, but as you can see had all of us on doubles (up to double 130's) attempted to even get on the steps it'd been over. Why anyone wouldn't cancel a class on a day like that is beyond me. Part of your O/W class is to get you to ENJOY diving. Ill be a majority of the students in this class didn't enjoy much of that day. Its somewhat unfair to them honestly.

That is the fault of the Instructor, And as an Instructor, Should know better , and know to call it a day, BAD Instructor!!

Now the students may have a bad taste of diving in their mouth, Some might even quit..... Bad Instructor!!

 

[Jim Ernst]

It's definitely unfair to the students and to our local diving.

If my O/W experience was a rough surf entry where I had to be dragged through the waves, bobbing in a strong swell trying to catch my breath, and later getting pummeled underneath in < 5' viz in 54 degree water, I doubt that I'd dive Monterey ever again.

My Point Exactly..... Bad, No, Lousy Instructor, to take students into that kind of a first experience!!:shocked2:

 

[Guy Alcala]

It's definitely unfair to the students and to our local diving.

If my O/W experience was a rough surf entry where I had to be dragged through the waves, bobbing in a strong swell trying to catch my breath, and later getting pummeled underneath in < 5' viz in 54 degree water, I doubt that I'd dive Monterey ever again.

I agree that it was too much for OW students, for the reason you state; Indeed, they might well give up diving altogether, thinking that it's like this everywhere. I'm often amazed to see an instructor taking OW students out in such conditions at BW, but every so often there'll be an instructor apparently determined to certify his students (so far I haven't seen a woman instructor do this) according to a schedule, regardless of conditions. On such occasions a bunch of us usually stand by along the top of the wall, ready to head down and drag people onto the beach, get their gear off them and stand them up. There's almost always one or two who get knocked down and need the help.

That being said, I do think that _AOW_ students should be exposed to these conditions, and it's notable from the video that three out of four divers made it through the breaker line with minimal problems. I confess I find a no-gear DM dragging an 'experienced' student out beyond the breakers to be somewhat pointless; if you're trying to teach them to judge wave sets and handle surf, the DM should be getting them back to the beach and standing so they can give it another shot by themselves (when ready). Stand near them and tell them what to do on their first few tries, by all means, but they need to learn to handle the situation themselves (or with another, similarly geared diver).

Guy

 

[Guy Alcala]

The Breakwater can actually be a fairly treacherous place when the swell gets high especially with a long interval. Many people think "Oh, it's only the Breakwater, it's the bunny hill". Yeah that's true when swell is low with knee highs, but get waist or chest high waves and it really changes. Some of that is due to the long slope of the beach and also how some wave energy is funneled in by the breakwall. The speed in which the water comes in and pulls back out can be deceiving and take many people right off their feet even when it doesn't look that bad from the parking lot.
Putting fins on on the beach and trying and walk through it is even harder. There are ways to deal with getting through surf like this for those that like to test their surf entrie skills. Me, I prefer to stay on shore now and watch.

Mask on with mask strap tight, reg in mouth, and fins in hand with a tight grip, walk out and stay low with a fairly wide stance, when waves come in stop and plant firmly and let wave blast by, as wave goes by continue moving in, when waist high get fins on as rapidly as possible, dive in seaward and kick like hell!!. If you have to use your arms to swim along with using fins so be it, the main objective is to get through the surf and out. If you fail and it doesn't happen then it obviously is too big and you failed, so now you know your limit.

<snip>

But to take beginning divers out in those conditions like in the video is silly and just wrong.
That divemaster should have gotten the diver back to the beach to regroup and try it again from the beginning not try and drag them out further. Looking at the skill level of those divers they should have never attempted that dive.

Trying to get in with fins on in conditions like that doesn't work. If you get your feet taken out from under you it's too hard to get back up. At least if you are running in without fins on right away and get pounded or rolled you can stand up and get out.
The worst that's going to happen is if you lose your grip on your fins you might lose one, but then if you are attempting to go diving in those conditions you should be prepared for that.

Sounds like you had fun anyway Mike, and had an excellent training session in large wave management.

I have slightly a different take. Owing to some flexibility issues it often takes me too long to get my fins on between waves. So, on days when it's ankle biters at Monastery, or almost any day I'd want to dive at BW, I go in sans fins. But, when I'm going to have to get my fins on in a hurry more or less at the breaker line, I put the fins on first and walk in sideways, minimizing my profile. Time the waves right and kick like hell to get past the breaker line, diving into the base of an oncoming breaker if necessary.

I know experienced divers and instructors who never put their fins on on shore, those who always do, and those like me who do so only in certain circumstances. All work; IMO experience is more the determining factor of success than specific technique.

Guy

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

That being said, I do think that _AOW_ students should be exposed to these conditions, and it's notable from the video that three out of four divers made it through the breaker line with minimal problems. I confess I find a no-gear DM dragging an 'experienced' student out beyond the breakers to be somewhat pointless; if you're trying to teach them to judge wave sets and handle surf, the DM should be getting them back to the beach and standing so they can give it another shot by themselves (when ready). Stand near them and tell them what to do, by all means, but they need to learn to handle the situation themselves (or with another, similarly geared diver).

Guy

Or, if the conditions are trashed when they get there and it's obvious that trying to get any form of a meaningful class related dive is futile, what they should do is ditch the scuba gear and just have basic skin diving gear on and go play in the surf and get used to big water. It can't hurt and might even be fun!

I know an instructor that teaches a NAUI class at Sonoma State University. It's an 11 week course (? I think, maybe more) and he has his students fully learn skin diving and then a day of water acclimation up at Stump Beach in Sonoma County (rough water) in nothing but skin diving gear. All this is done before they even are alowed to put on scuba gear. It's a good old fashioned NAUI class from back in the day.
By the time they get to the ocean to do their check out dives conditions like that would be no big deal.