brand new to idea of scooters

[jomcclain]

@jomcclain

I think you’re in a bit of a tough spot.

The budget limitation (we all have these) is leading you to options that are not likely to last. If you have the resources to replace the budget scooter in another season or so, then disregard. If you, like many of us, want to make a purchase knowing that it will last 3-5 years, then the old adage, “Buy once, cry once.” comes to mind.

The second tough part is the reality of temptation. Once a diver gets on a scooter, the diver’s outlook really changes. I’d say it’s akin to going from walking to riding a bicycle. You’re covering an exceptionally greater distance in a much shorter time at a much more efficient manner and able to take in a lot more scenery.

Diving with a scooter and not using it (except occasionally) would be like going walking and just pushing along your bicycle. Not many people are going to say, “OK, we’re at the top of the hill, I’m going to walk down.” A diver would have to be exceptionally disciplined to only use a DPV every once in a while for an assist. As others have said, the DPV can be cumbersome when not deployed and towing the diver. That factor alone may tempt a diver to just get on with the dive on the scooter.

Another opinion. With great capability comes great responsibility. Using a scooter can introduce an imperceptible risk. As indicated above, a diver can cover a lot more ground than he may proactively think about. A prudent outlook, IMO, is to think at regular intervals during the dive (distance or time) about a scooter failure and what it will take to get back to safety. My rule is to never scooter past what my legs and available gas can handle.

Because of this, my fitness program changed based on my purchase of a scooter. I doubled down on specific leg exercises to keep myself out of trouble in the event of scooter failure. So, while you’re looking for a scooter to relieve your husband from physical demands (noble intention), I think using a scooter actually increases the physical demands if one is to be prepared for a scooter failure. Fear one ‘may not get back’ should not be the first thought when the scooter floods.

OPTION #1: Pay for a personal trainer to help your husband get his leg strength back so you can enjoy the dives in your chosen location.

OPTION #2: If it’s not medically feasible to regain his leg strength through a personal trainer, adjust your diving destinations to where the currents are not likely to exceed his strength.

OPTION #3: Like @scubadada recommended, pay for a DPV course for your husband to get some training and insight into what the options are so that you can make an informed purchase. I’d look for an instructor that has dived a lot of scooters and that isn’t just trying to sell you what’s on the shop floor.

OPTION #4: Buy the economical Yamaha, etc scooter knowing that it will be an experimental purchase and that in another season or so you may be on the hook for another purchase. Note this option will still require dealing with the above temptation and failure factors.

OPTION #5: Hold off buying until the budget loosens up a bit and buy a purpose-built dive tool that has a proven track record amongst more serious divers. Note this option will also still require dealing with the above temptation and failure factors.

Sorry to be so long winded or to complicate things…just trying to offer perspective so that you can make a decision with your eyes wide open.

Best of luck to you with your journey and let us know how you get along.

Good analysis. We could go more expensive if we need to. I just didn't want to. But would rather do that and get something he's happy with than waste $1000 on something that won't work out. I do not believe that temptation is going to be an issue at all because I won't have a scooter and he's not going to leave me behind. We dive on boats and wouldn't try to leave the group behind anyway.

 

[jomcclain]

People do generally run their scooter for the entire dive unless they park it while they’re poking around inside a wreck or something similar.

I know, everyone on here is saying that. But that is not what he wants. I wouldn't want that either. We simply want something that he could use momentarily as needed. Surely someone has come up with a way to get them to neutral buoyancy.

 

[Marie13]

Was that supposed to be funny or are you really that rude? You know nothing about my husband's level of expertise (former instructor) or his health, other the fact that he now has some degree of difficulty with current. From that you deduce to he should be in a pasture pool. I created this post looking for advice on DPVs and have gotten a lot of good information. Didn't need insults.

@Sam Miller III is a diving pioneer in California. He has been around a VERY long time. He’s earned the right to yell “get off my lawn” in the diving world. How are we supposed to know your husband’s background? You gave very minimal info. You also didn’t address the several posts suggesting your husband improve his fitness/leg strength, if that’s possible. You came across as the typical vacation divers desperate for a solution after someone happened to mention scooters.

It would also not be responsible for us to recommend scooters if that was not a good solution for your husband’s situation. That’s why we have gone well into bad situations that could happen.

Are you willing to deal with the hassle of dragging a scooter through airports, onto the boat, handing it up to crew, etc.? Even the recreational scooters are big and bulky.

 

[jomcclain]

Too many people are taking things to the extreme. A scooter is a great way to handle currents and get around more efficiently (and probably safer) since you are not exerting yourself.

One has to balance the strength required (and pain in the ass aspects) associated with wrestling the thing onto and off the boat.

For me, it makes a hell of a lot more sense to spend 2 or 3 k for a scooter rather than $1000 for some fancy computer no rec. divers needs at all.

Lastly, scooters are dangerous because they can start and stop working on their own and loosing one would be expensive and embarrassing. So a diver needs to be prepared for both loss and unexpected behavior.

Most importantly, recreational probably shouldn't put themselves in situations where failure of the gear (scooter), could cause a fatality. If you have an smb attached to the scooter and it stops working, or floods and gets heavy, the diver should be able to send it up alone and then abort the dive safely.

A scooter failure should be a nuisance, not a dangerous situation. If a recreational diver approaches scooters with that sort of mindset, I don't thing it is that big of a deal. Of course it takes a little getting use to as well.

Is there one you would recommend for around $2K? We would need to be able to make a neutrally buoyant so that he's not throwing off his trim carrying it as a weight when it's not running. I had been looking at Scubajet and contacted the company, but they said that there is no way to make it neutral.

 

[jomcclain]

@Sam Miller III is a diving pioneer in California. He has been around a VERY long time. He’s earned the right to yell “get off my lawn” in the diving world. How are we supposed to know your husband’s background? You gave very minimal info. You also didn’t address the several posts suggesting your husband improve his fitness/leg strength, if that’s possible. You came across as the typical vacation divers desperate for a solution after someone happened to mention scooters.

It would also not be responsible for us to recommend scooters if that was not a good solution for your husband’s situation. That’s why we have gone well into bad situations that could happen.

Are you willing to deal with the hassle of dragging a scooter through airports, onto the boat, handing it up to crew, etc.? Even the recreational scooters are big and bulky.

I don't care who someone is. Insults are not necessary. I am taking the suggestions for improving his strength seriously, but didn't see a need to go into that here, as this is a forum about DPVs. Yes, we're willing to go through airports, handing it to crew, etc.

 

[drrich2]

I was checking out the scubajet website. I found that they do not have any way to make them neutrally buoyant. What do people do about that, other than leave them running the whole time? Since he would only be using it for brief intervals, it would not be acceptable to have to carry it around as a weight the rest of the time.

I'm not familiar with the different brands and models. I did a quick search on the Yamaha Seawing II to see what it might offer. From an Amazon product page on it, it claims it's 8 lbs., but neutrally buoyant in salt water.

Again, I'm not saying this is the one to get, but it looks light enough to pack for plane trips. The 3 out of 5 stars (10 reviews) would give me pause; might want to read the reviews (and some on other sites) to see what the issues were.

 

[gqllc007]

Good analysis. We could go more expensive if we need to. I just didn't want to. But would rather do that and get something he's happy with than waste $1000 on something that won't work out. I do not believe that temptation is going to be an issue at all because I won't have a scooter and he's not going to leave me behind. We dive on boats and wouldn't try to leave the group behind anyway.

The ScubaJet for $1980 looks enticing for your needs but I know no one who has one or used one

 

[jomcclain]

The ScubaJet for $1980 looks enticing for your needs but I know no one who has one or used one

I was actually looking at the ScubaJet, but would need something that can be made neutrally buoyant. Contact scubajet and they said that they don't have anything to make it neutral.

 

[johndiver999]

Is there one you would recommend for around $2K? We would need to be able to make a neutrally buoyant so that he's not throwing off his trim carrying it as a weight when it's not running. I had been looking at Scubajet and contacted the company, but they said that there is no way to make it neutral.

I am sorry you have been subject to ridicule. I would be one of the first in line to criticize if it was evident that someone was contemplating recreational dives they were clearly not qualified to do.

If someone has handicaps that they are trying to work around in order to continue to safely dive, then that should not generate a lot of negative feedback - in my opinion.

I don't know about that tiny little scooter, but something like that should be practical to travel with and should be allowed on a boat. Something like that, is smaller than a damn camera rig!

I think that if you are going to look at one of those tiny scooters, then you will have to resign yourself to something that is negative. If you get a big honking scooter that weight 50 lbs (on the boat) then they can make that neutral in the water, but something that bulky needs to be used all the time you are moving. Dragging a big dead scooter (even if close to neutral) is a real pain in the butt, and if you have weak legs then it is entirely impractical to tow around a scooter that is not being actively used.

So I suspect that a diver could use one of those much smaller scooters on an intermittent basis and just drag it with them when not running. Even if it is negative, there is probably a way to carry it or clip it off and maybe hang below you like a keel weight or something and just add air to the BC. I have never done this, but I bet it could be done.

It sounds to me like it would be worthwhile to test a few of these super compact scooters in a pool and see if they will serve your purpose ... but be WARNED... you might end up having to buy 2. Buddy pairs with and without scooters is non optimal... I've towed my share of buddies who were hanging on my shoulder ... it gets old real fast.

 

[jomcclain]

I am sorry you have been subject to ridicule. I would be one of the first in line to criticize if it was evident that someone was contemplating recreational dives they were clearly not qualified to do.

If someone has handicaps that they are trying to work around in order to continue to safely dive, then that should not generate a lot of negative feedback - in my opinion.

I don't know about that tiny little scooter, but something like that should be practical to travel with and should be allowed on a boat. Something like that, is smaller than a damn camera rig!

I think that if you are going to look at one of those tiny scooters, then you will have to resign yourself to something that is negative. If you get a big honking scooter that weight 50 lbs (on the boat) then they can make that neutral in the water, but something that bulky needs to be used all the time you are moving. Dragging a big dead scooter (even if close to neutral) is a real pain in the butt, and if you have weak legs then it is entirely impractical to tow around a scooter that is not being actively used.

So I suspect that a diver could use one of those much smaller scooters on an intermittent basis and just drag it with them when not running. Even if it is negative, there is probably a way to carry it or clip it off and maybe hang below you like a keel weight or something and just add air to the BC. I have never done this, but I bet it could be done.

It sounds to me like it would be worthwhile to test a few of these super compact scooters in a pool and see if they will serve your purpose ... but be WARNED... you might end up having to buy 2. Buddy pairs with and without scooters is non optimal... I've towed my share of buddies who were hanging on my shoulder ... it gets old real fast.

Thanks, I would love to try one out first, but don’t know how I would find an opportunity to do that. I’m not considering a big heavy one though, seems like that would be overkill for out purposes.