BP/W use dependent on level of diving expertise????? Help.

[darkstar]

Couldn't agree less. A BP wing is more streamlined than any jacket or back inflate. No one would put a 90lb lift on a single. Halcyon Pioneer is a 27# lift bladder with low low profile but plenty of lift. You don't need to go Halcyon but stay with a 30# or less. The nice thing with Halcyon is that you can use the same plate to add a larger bladder if you want to go double tanks.

Ok, so maybe the 90lb bladder was pushing it. The point is that you still have to configure a BP system for the type of diving you do and not all BP systems are well suited to all divers or for single tank diving. I would still try a both a BP and decent back inflation BC before buying anything.

 

[Quarrior]

Ok, so maybe the 90lb bladder was pushing it. The point is that you still have to configure a BP system for the type of diving you do and not all BP systems are well suited to all divers or for single tank diving.

Now I'm confused. What do you mean when you say a BP system has to be configured for the type of diving you do? Single tank diving you use a singles wing. Double tank diving you use a doubles wing. What's to configure? Most people who dive both singles and doubles have 2 complete setups so they don't mess with either.

I would still try a both a BP and decent back inflation BC before buying anything.

No disagreement there.

 

[herman]

My sherwood luna failed horribly in Roatan. I really did get suckered there. Knew impulse buys were BAD!!! Oh well. Learning experience. Has no lift. Spent half my SURFACE TIME UNDERWATER. Would recommend it to no-one but a child (of course, being tiny, I do have the XS, but NO lift, 18lbs does not cut it, even just wearing 8-lbs). And no, that is NOT overweighting for me. After all the discussion re BC and BP/W, decided to check out the BP/W set-up.
Rosa

I am going to change the subject a little.
While BP/wings are fine BCs, they are not a cure all and will not negate diving problems. Rosa, if I understand your problem, you were having trouble staying on the surface. 18 lbs of lift should be plenty unless you are overweighted. Rarely is lack of lift a problem at the surface for a correctly weighted diver. Insufficent lift problems show up at depth when wetsuits start to compress and lose buoyancy Although you feel you are correctly weighted, I would suggest you spend some time in a pool doing weighting and trim checks before purchasing any other equipment. At worst you waste some time and at best, you avoid spending money on more equipment that will not fix the problem. You should be neutrally buoyant at the surface (or 15 ft depending on who you ask) with an almost empty tank and NO air in your BC. If this is the case, your BC only needs a couple of lbs of buoyancy to keep you on the surface and your head above water. It is not intended to float you high like a life preserver does.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Rosa,

What are the downsides to a BP & Wing?

Some might say they put you on your face at the surface. Not true if you are properly weighted, and are using a crotch strap. The crotch strap is key. With a CS one need put very little air in the wing to be comfortable at the surface. Without a CS the tendancy is to over fill the wing, and the rig (but not you) rise out of the water. Now the rig is above and behind you.

What are the advantages of a BP & Wing, even if all you currently plan is single tank recreational diving?

Better streamlining

Better Trim

Less weight on the belt

Improved stability

Comfort

Can your LDS tell me how these advantages are "overkill" for any diver?


Addtional advantages include:

Very rugged. "Wear" parts like harness and inflation bladders can typically be replaced seperately.

Modular, can adapt as needs change.

Travels compactly.

Can your LDS tell me how these advantages are "overkill" for any diver?


Regards,



Tobin

 

[lamont]

Going through the BC agony again. :06: My sherwood luna failed horribly in Roatan. I really did get suckered there. Knew impulse buys were BAD!!! Oh well. Learning experience. Has no lift. Spent half my SURFACE TIME UNDERWATER. Would recommend it to no-one but a child (of course, being tiny, I do have the XS, but NO lift, 18lbs does not cut it, even just wearing 8-lbs). And no, that is NOT overweighting for me. After all the discussion re BC and BP/W, decided to check out the BP/W set-up.

I have reviewed several threads in this forum re BP/W set-ups and jacket BCDs.

Went to my LDS today, and was essentially told that BP/W is overkill for my level...., true, I have been diving less than a year and don't plan tech diving anytime soon. However, I get the impression that the BP/W are more adaptable, easier to "grow with" and liberating. I travel a lot and checked out the info re aluminum plates versus steel etc. I did check out the Lady Hawk and Divas as well. They all have lots of pros and some cons.

What is the general opinion on level of experience affecting the use of BP/W set ups? Should I really stay away from them simply because I am a newbie?

Thanks for any helpful opinions. I would hate to make another mistake!!!

Rosa

You've got more experience than me when I firsted used a BP/W -- I started with a BP/W on my first dive after basic OW. There's a dive shop up here that starts out BOW students on BP/W right from the start.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

There's a dive shop up here that starts out BOW students on BP/W right from the start.

Actually there's two of them ... 5th D and Puget Sound Diving.

And the reason I currently own four complete BP/W setups is so that my students can try one if they choose.

Best way to decide if it's right for you is to "test drive" one ... unfortunately, not everyone gets the opportunity.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[android]

I am going to change the subject a little.
While BP/wings are fine BCs, they are not a cure all and will not negate diving problems. Rosa, if I understand your problem, you were having trouble staying on the surface. 18 lbs of lift should be plenty unless you are overweighted.

Thank you Herman!

Since you should be neutral with 500psi and an empty BC, the BC need only supply enought lift to make you positive from a neutral to -5 bouyancy (assuming an AL80.)

So you should have had 13lbs of lift at the beginning of your dive and about 18lbs at the end of the dive. If you were sinking, you WERE overweighted.

(Since this is Roatan, we're not going to worry about wetsuit compression!)

This doesn't mean dont' get a BP/W, it just means figure out how to use what you got first.

 

[JeffG]

Thank you Herman!

Since you should be neutral with 500psi and an empty BC, the BC need only supply enought lift to make you positive from a neutral to -5 bouyancy (assuming an AL80.)

So you should have had 13lbs of lift at the beginning of your dive and about 18lbs at the end of the dive. If you were sinking, you WERE overweighted.

(Since this is Roatan, we're not going to worry about wetsuit compression!)

This doesn't mean dont' get a BP/W, it just means figure out how to use what you got first.

Back in my Jacket BC days, the biggest problem was that the BC rides up. So the BC is out of the water but the shoulder straps have big gaps. (The body is sinking, but the BC is floating)

Thats probably what is happening in her case.

 

[Divegirl412]

First of all, thanks everyone for your input. Very helpful. Looking forward to exploring this more.

And as far as overweighting, that was my first concern. Actually the first time I used the luna was with steel tanks and 4lb wts with a full 5mm suit in FL (Yes I am a major warm water wuss). No problems. Then wore it in San Diego for my AOW class dives. New 7mm suit, skin etc, and I was overweighted to start (My dive instructor overestimated the weights cos of all the rubber and my physique -- I am a heck of a lot more muscular than I look) went from 24lbs to 14lbs at end of class, but even with 14 lbs and fully inflated BC, I had no lift at the surface with empty and full tanks.

Figured cold water, heavy weights, warm water BC, what the heck and took it to Roatan. Using AL tanks and 8lbs weight, full tank, no lift. Conversely with less than 8 lbs, empty tanks, empty BC, can't maintain safety stop, so can't drop any more weight. Also 8 lbs is my minimum to submerge with exhalation at the beginning of the dive. I am still learning, but have become quite adept at using only my lung volume to control buoyancy while diving.

But I feel very uncomfortable with that minimal lift at the surface while waiting for other divers to get in, and I don't need to get fatigued treading water BEFORE my dive. That is why I need more lift. Maybe my BC is not actually providing the supposedly "18lbs" of lift.. defective??? But if I plan to dive CA, I will most likely need more lift capacity anyway. Figured that if I was "learning my lesson" I might as well get what I can truly learn and grow with, and the BP/W concept interested me. Haven't written off BCs, just considering alternatives.

Thanks
Rosa

Thank you Herman!

Since you should be neutral with 500psi and an empty BC, the BC need only supply enought lift to make you positive from a neutral to -5 bouyancy (assuming an AL80.)

So you should have had 13lbs of lift at the beginning of your dive and about 18lbs at the end of the dive. If you were sinking, you WERE overweighted.

(Since this is Roatan, we're not going to worry about wetsuit compression!)

This doesn't mean dont' get a BP/W, it just means figure out how to use what you got first.

 

[Divegirl412]

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