BP/W ?'s

[OceanLover91]

Okay I'm really sorry if this is not where this belongs, I'm still new to the boards. I've been doing a lot of research lately because all my excitement makes me want to buy my gear but I know I should wait. I was reading the "What did you buy that you regret" thread and kept seeing BP/W and couldn't figure out what it meant, after a few searches I understand it stands for backplate and wing. What I don't understand is the purpose.

I think it is to replace the BCD by having a backplate support everything and the wing be the BCD somehow? Is this correct? I'm thinking it's for streamlining purposes, not really sure though.

I was curious though, is the backplate comfortable? I can see myself being very uncomfortable with something like that on my back...

Also, I am required to buy my own weights for my class (I know I know, most shops should rent them but I checked and nothing exist around me that is like that) and I was going to go with shot because I thought it would be better (we are learning with weight integrated BCDs) but I would think regular hard weights would be the best option if you went the BP/W way and it doesn't really matter what weights you use in a weight integrated BCD anyway.

Just a little confused, any clarity would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!

 

[RJP]

After a few searches I understand it stands for backplate and wing. What I don't understand is the purpose.I think it is to replace the BCD by having a backplate support everything and the wing be the BCD somehow? Is this correct? I'm thinking it's for streamlining purposes, not really sure though.

You got it. Streamlined in terms of profile in the water, but also in terms of operation...

Halcyon Eclipse System at www.DiveSeekers.com

I was curious though, is the backplate comfortable? I can see myself being very uncomfortable with something like that on my back...

Even though it lacks all of the superfluous padding and fabric of a traditional BCD, a BP/W so much more comfortable. Mostly because it is nowhere near as restrictive, there's pretty much nothing in front of you. Also, a one-piece harness system is infinitly adjustable so the ability to get a "perfect fit" is much higher with a BP/W vs a traditional BCD.

Now you're probably talking about the idea of a "a sheet of metal" on your back. But you truly do not feel the difference at all. Some feel that the fact that the straps are not padded will be uncomfortable. I most often dive double 119cf steel tanks plus a stage bottle, deco bottle, canister light, and two reels. >130lbs dry weight. No problem. With a typical diver's single tank rig you'll be perfectly comfortable.

If you want something with some padding there is the ability to add padding to the shoulderstraps and backplate if desired:

Halcyon Infinity Deluxe Harness Pads as www.DiveSeekers.com

Then there's also the Dive Rite Transplate and Transpac options. Sort of the love child of a BP/W and a BCD. Valhalla will be along soon to tell you one of these is the perfect option for recreational divers who are "DIR-curious" but not ready to go "whole-hog" and he may well be right.

DiveRite Transplate System at www.DiveSeekers.com

DiveRite Transpac System at www.DiveSeekers.com

Also, I am required to buy my own weights for my class (I know I know, most shops should rent them but I checked and nothing exist around me that is like that) and I was going to go with shot because I thought it would be better (we are learning with weight integrated BCDs) but I would think regular hard weights would be the best option if you went the BP/W way and it doesn't really matter what weights you use in a weight integrated BCD anyway.

Depends on how you plan to wear weights with your BP/W. If a weightbelt, then hard weight can simply be slipped on the belt. However there are weight harnesses and weight pockets than can be used with a BP/W that will accommodate hard or soft weights.

Halcyon Integrated Weight Pockets at www.DiveSeekers.com

Hope that helps some - Ray

 

[Blue982]

A BP/W is a style of BCD. It consists of a harness (to attach everything to you), a backplate (to hold everything together and provide stability), a wing (air bag, for buoyancy control) and sometimes some other components. The wing functions just like a standard BCD with a power inflator and a butt dump. Unlike a standard BCD, a BP/W is modular and you can exchange or replace components at will. In my experience, minimally-configured BP/W is a bit more streamlined and a bit less confining than a standard BCD.

You can use hard or soft weights with a BCD or a BP/W. With weight-integrated BCDs, the soft weight tends to be a little easier on the pockets and your body. The hard weights tend to be cheaper and a little less bulky. Both are viable options for a BCD or a BP/W. If you are diving with a non-weight-integrated BCD or a BP/W, you will need a belt. The belt is different for soft weights is different than the style of belt for hard weights.

A BP/W setup can be a little harder to set up, requiring some research and assembly on your part. They are a bit harder to get on and off. They can be a little less comfortable on the surface. They don't automatically float you face up on the surface, like some standard BCDs (some view this as a benefit others as a drawback). On the other hand, they really cut down on unnecessary clutter.

Both standard BCDs and BP/Ws have definite advantages and disadvantages. I highly recommend trying both before purchasing one or the other.

Some related terms and their definitions

 

[clifftondiver]

First off, welcome. Second, you're walking in a mine field of sorts with the BP\W subject.

I believe the bp\w system came out of cave diving in florida. I know I'll be corrected if I'm wrong. It's a very minimalist and flexible way to configure ones gear. Not only can you have your rig EXACTLY like YOU want it, you don't have the squeeze of a jacket bcd which some find uncomfortable (myself included). I started with a jacket-style bcd, but changed to bp\w when I moved to doubles.

As far as a plate being uncomfortable, as counter-intuitive as it sounds, it's not. Since the goal is to be neutrally buoyant, once in the water, very little pressure put on your back by the plate. I didn't look to see where you dive, but if you're in a thick wetsuit or a drysuit you certainly will not feel the plate. In fact, aluminum plates exist so traveling is easier. I've read of people who dive their bp\w's in a t-shirt (I'm taking mine to Key West in 2 weeks )

Now, you will get people who say bp\w's are of Satan and that if you wear one a curse will befall your family for generations. On the other hand, you'll get the bp\w-philes who think that only OW students wear jacket bcd's and that wearing one makes you an inferior diver. Neither OPINIONS are true. You should find which setup works for you and dive it!

Should you decide you want a bp\w, I think there's a SB consenus that Tobin at Deep Sea Supply absolutely ROCKS! I bought both my single and doubles wings, plate too, from him. He will take the time to respond to your emails in a thoughtful manner, no matter if you buy from him or not.

As far as weights go, I used the shot weight for a while. But it always hurt my hips. My instructor persuaded me to try the old-school lead weights and belt. Believe it or not, they are MUCH more comfortable. Give them a try.
Hope this helps. I'm looking forward to the other responses

 

[RJP]

I think there's a SB consenus that Tobin at Deep Sea Supply absolutely ROCKS!

There's no such thing as a ScubaBoard consensus on anything - much less this point - so let's not het carried away here.

Yes, Tobin's fans are loyal and vocal, and probably deservedly so. However their number does not represent more than a small proportion of ScubaBoard BP/W divers.

 

[herman]

Welcome to the board.
The debate over BCs has raged since the early days of the board. Bottom line is, a BP/wing is another type of BC with it's strengths and weaknesses. Some like one style, others like a different style and other don't care either way but for whatever reason, many of those who dive BP/wings seem to be more vocal in their opinion. Many of the benefits of the BP/wing are misleading, they either imply that other types of BCs don't provide the same function and they do or the benefit is of minimal value. Look at the photos above, there is no wing on any of the BPs and they are devoid of any attachments that many divers like such as pockets or integrated weight systems, both of which can be added to the BP at more cost and at the expense of streamlining.

A couple of examples of misleading BP facts:

"A BP is more adjustable", well true but exactly how much adjustment do you need? I dive a back inflate in everything from a t-shirt to a dry suit and it's adjusts plenty for that range. If the BC is being shared by a small kid and a big adult that may be important but otherwise it's a mute point. Plus they are a pain to adjust which is one of the reasons most BP divers who regularly shift between diving styles - t-shirt to dry suit for example own several Bps- a fact rarely talked about.

"Its modular so is something wears out you can replace it" again true but exactly who wears out a BC? I can find no one who will admit to actually wearing out a BC, faded and looking ratty yea but not worn out. Considering the wing is the major cost item and it typically sells for close to what a mid range back inflate or jacket style BC sells for and any of them will last for many years, being able to replace cost is not that big of a deal, esp if you consider how many years between replacement and the overall cost per dive.

They are good BCs and in some instances they are superior to other BCs, twin tanks for example but otherwise if you cut through the hype and compare them carefully they are not nearly as great as many would have you think. For some of us, their true benefits are outweighed by their shortcomings. Your best bet is still to test dive any type of gear you think you may want and decide for yourself
.

 

[Scott L]

RJP knows me all to well. If you are in S. Florida I can loan you a TransPac for several months usage in order to descern the benefits of a somewhat minimalistic BCD.

Otherwise, I say invest in Halcyon's product as it has so many option availiable unlike most other brands and is built rock solid. Besides, their dealer network is extensive in the state. Oh yeah, Jupiter Dive Center has a loaner Halcyon rig you can try as well. Good luck! PM if unit desired. Scott

One last thing. DeepSeaSupply's products are top-notch as well and Tobin is hands on with recomendations only a phone call away...

https://www.deepseasupply.com/

 

[Fishpie]

The problem with recommending Halcyon is they don't have a "tropical" wing.
I've been hounding them for years to re-introduce something similar to their original "bat wing".
I seems crazy that the two companies that do have a low lift wing are located or originated on the West coast where the cold(er) water necessitates larger capacity wings.

 

[spectrum]

OceanLover91,

Welcome to the board and to diving. It is great that you are beginning to research gear options before training. Becoming gear savvy is tougher than getting certified. Much about gear is preference, there is very little junk out there. Fit and suitability are another story. You do need the right gear for your doing and it needs to fit.

Since you have not taken your class yet common wisdom is to hold off on buying major gear for a number of reasons.
1: You WILL need to get a mask, fins, booties and snorkel for class. Concentrate on getting those items right first
2) You may not care for diving so don't put the cart ahead of the horse.
3) Diving the shop gear including whatever they provide for a BC is great experience. If nothing else it lets you form your own position on likes and dislikes. Any time you can sample gear for free do so!

As others have said a BP&W is a Buoyancy Compensator format. It's modular and stems from the technical side of the sport in some ways. It's also a close cousin to older hard packs some of which got outfitted with early fabric wings. The BP&W is perfectly suited to recreational diving but for single tank diving jackets and back inflate BC's are also perfectly viable.

You have many things to form opinions on. Personally I would say that lead shot (soft) weights are a pollution hazard that have a limited life span compared to solid weights. I also am of the school that says you should only integrate to your BC the weight need on your upper body to achieve trim (prone swimming posture). All of the rest belongs on a belt or in a harness system that remains on your person. These are topics you will want to watch for in other threads. As you can see there are a number of interrelated aspects of your buoyancy control system and of your entire diving rig for that matter.

For now keep doing homework and get certified in shop gear as much as possible. If you have good rental options locally then trying a few other rigs after certification is often helpful. This unfortunately requires that local shops offer rental gear that is current and of a model you would might actually want own to begin with.

Pete

 

[SangP]

I would say, that instead of listening to all the talk about bp/w ask yourself what sort of diving do you intend to do?

Rec w/ travel or w/o much traveling, deeper tech type or photography etc etc.

Just cos a bp/w is one of the better type of bcds out there ask yourself if it's something you might need or will be able to use effectively.

The latest travel stuff like Aqualung Zuma or zeagle express tech look really good but...

If you are really interested in a bp/w then a great deal with an truly excellent wing would be this:
BackPlate and Wing Package reviews and discounts, Dive Rite
I have quite a few plates and wings and unless you really want to do dir n follow it to the letter, there is no reason why that setup is inferior to anything that halcyon or any thing else out there.

I got a bp/w from the start cus I knew I was going the tech route and I would have gladly taken that deal instead of the Halcyon eclipse setup that I initially got.

SangP