BP/W..... one BC to rule them all??

[tbone1004]

what if the OP is 4-6lbs positively buoyant? Hence my first words "depending on body composition". If he sinks like a brick we have a different story, if he's diving a Faber FX80 instead of a Worthington/PST 80 we have a different story, that's why I qualified both statements with body composition.

you know as well as anyone ballast calculations are done at the surface with an empty tank, so don't go there. Lift calculations are done with a full tank and compressed suit. So the rig is only 4lbs past a "balanced rig" and much less overweight than what most instructors overweight students initially.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I have no problem with people diving with more ballast than they need, I will dive 15 lbs of extra lead if I want to stabilize myself and work the bottom in a strong current, however the lead is DITCHABLE. The problem is having zero ditchable lead and recommending the (new) diver being heavier than needed.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Steel or aluminum is a question I get asked quite often by my customers and potential customers. For some the answer is definitely steel. For others the aluminum makes more sense. There is also a group for whom the plate doesn't seem to matter as having something - steel or aluminum- that is versatile. One plate to rule them all so to speak. I discovered years ago that this is possible with weight systems you can add to the plate.
There are several ways to do this. Weight plates that DSS offers that bolt to their plates. I have a set. I have two DSS plates. One for singles and one for doubles.

I have a freedom contour plate which really is my favorite for single tanks since it's so damn comfortable and cool looking and I can use it with OR without a wing. In a 3 mil with an al 80 it's just right for me. For added or reserve buoyancy I'll carry a lift bag or use the vintage horsecollar a friend gave me.

I also have an Al plate that I use with the dbl 72's I have when diving wet. If I use it for singles a weight pocket gets slid onto each cam band. In fact all my single tank rigs have them on the cam bands. Sometimes it's just a pain in the butt to bolt the plates on or it's too much.

Since I use a weight belt 90% of the time it's easy to distribute the weight so that the loss of any one system is not going to compromise my safety by resulting in a rapid ascent. In my situation I could be in a 3 mil in the pool on Thursday, a 5 mil in the lake on Saturday, and diving dry on Sunday for a deep dive. With a weight belt (that also has individual pockets I can access separately and drop the lead from one of those), the cam band pockets, and a little common sense I can use any one of my single tank set ups and only need to adjust the lead I have. With these set ups steel or aluminum doesn't matter.

It only really matters if I happen to be using say one of my steel 95's with the steel plate, and a 3 mil. Or just a shortie. Then I am way over weighted with no lead to begin the dive with. I use a 32 lb wing for all single tank diving. I used to have a smaller one but ran into some issues in assisting other divers who were not my students or dive buddies and were diving over weighted. Didn't like the feeling that came with trying to support them with the smaller wing. With this wing for the diving I do and have done that concern goes away. I've used it in the pool, local lakes and quarries, under the ice, and in a 2 knot current on the Duane and close to that on the Spiegel. Never had an issue with excess drag, not being able to vent the wing, or it being too big for anything from Lp72's on up.

I'm not out to set speed records and so drag really does not come into play. The profile is a little bigger than the smaller one I was using but not enough to get worked up about. Most important I know I have the lift I need for any single tank I want to use, any accessories I may want to carry, a stage bottle up to an al80, and for me personally, enough lift to assist another diver without having to work too hard.

I know some disagree with this last reason and say you should not dive with people who over weight themselves, but I don't always have that option. I sometimes have to dive with people trained by instructors who don't understand proper weighting is important, don't care about it, or don't know how to teach it.

 

[halocline]

There are 3 main dive scenarios that I would like one BC to handle.

1. LOCAL: Local diving for me is in Lake Pleasant, Phoenix, AZ. Freshwater that will be dove with either AL80's or HP80, most likely in a 3mm suit.

2. TRAVEL: Travel diving can include just about anywhere but will most likely involve warm salt water, AL80's and a 3mm suit.

3. SOCAL: Diving in Southern California (lobster & Catalina) I will probably be wearing a 7mm suit and AL80's, although I have heard that the water is warmer than I remember (62*).

In order to decide between the steel and AL plate, you need to know your ballast needs for each of these scenarios. Nobody else can tell you what ballast you need, the only way is to test it yourself. But, if you're a 'typical' diver that's more-or-less neutral on your own with no equipment or wetsuit, you'll probably be fine with a steel plate except in fresh water with the HP80 and a thin wetsuit. You could be fairly overweighted in that case. So if you absolutely need one plate to do all of those things, the safe bet is the AL plate and you would be adding lead, preferably to the cambands, most of the time. There's nothing wrong with this approach, but the steel plate will be better in situations where you need the ballast.

For me, I like a steel plate with an AL tank and vice-versa, but I also don't dive with very thick wetsuits ever. I also use an AL plate with doubles, it just works better for me, even AL80s. The bands and manifold add a lot of weight.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Most divers has no problem buying multiple exposure suits for various conditions and water temps.

Some how the idea that a single BC must used for all conditions, equator to the arctic and with every tank ever made.

BP&W's are modular. That allows them to be optimized for a given application. While it's possible to cover a fairly wide range of conditions with a single set of plate and wing choices the further you get from optimum the greater the compromises.

I speak with divers every day that are seeking something better than the jacket they have now, yet they expect a single BP&W to be ideal everywhere on the planet. If they aren't careful they can end up negating some of the advantages by specifying too broad a range of applications.

"I dive mostly in Florida with aluminum 80's but I *might* (read never) go ice diving with Faber 149's, what one BP&W will be perfect for me?"

Be realistic about where and how the gear will actually be used, fewer compromises will be required, net result is a better performing BC, which is of course *why* divers seek a BP&W in the first place.

Tobin

 

[phoenix31tt]

I dive tropics in salt water with a single al80, 3mm full wetsuit. I'm 5'11", slim build and use 2lbs on the cam band and could easily dive without that 2lb especially if i'm carrying my camera and dris shorty light. A steel plate would probably be too heavy for me. If i ever had to go dive with a thicker wetsuit i'd just add weight accordingly on a belt or on the cam bands etc.
If i were to be switching often between wetsuits then i would probably get two plates/wings or whatever is necessary

 

[boulderjohn]

Don't you all remember the SB moderator who died not too long ago - simply because she was too heavy in like 12-15 ft of water?

I just want to correct this, which was caused by some misinformation related to the recovery that came out early in the discussion of that incident.

There is no question that Marcia was overweighted, but she was comfortably buoyant on the surface only minutes before submerging to swim to shore in shallow water. No one who has looked carefully at full the details of that incident has even a reasonable theory of its cause. There is no indication that being overweighted was at fault.

 

[dmaziuk]

I dive tropics in salt water with a single al80, 3mm full wetsuit. I'm 5'11", slim build and use 2lbs on the cam band and could easily dive without that 2lb especially if i'm carrying my camera and dris shorty light. A steel plate would probably be too heavy for me.

Ditto @ 6'1" and 185-ish lbs in 2/1 shorty. I could hold the SS with 500 psi and no 2lb trim weight, but I'd have to do that with mostly empty lungs. For me Al plate means 2lbs less in the luggage: trim weight I can get there, steel plate (or an STA) I'd have to drag with me.

If I were switching between wetsuits often I'd consider a lavacore/sharkskin, perhaps as an underlayer: it shouldn't lose thermal protection at depth, with no change in buoyancy as a nice bonus.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

There is no single perfect rig for every body of water on Earth.
If someone tries to pick one rig for everything, yes it could be used everywhere but it won't be ideal for any one place.
You could use an aluminum plate in the tropics since it light, and you could also use that same plate in cold water by just adding more lead to your weightbelt. But then that would be the drawback for cold water. With the wing, you would have to pick a bigger lift model because it would need to be used to offset the weight swing of a thick wetsuit in cold water, but it could also be used in warm water although it would overkill and not ideal, but it could be used.
So yes you could pick one rig , light plate and large lift wing, but it wouldn't work well in any particular setting.
That's why dedicated divers tend to end up with several rigs over time; because the more knowledge they gain the more they realize this.
but never the less, any combo of BP/W you choose is still going to be a quantum leap beyond any poodle jacket.
Some of those jackets are huge and a pain to travel with because they take up so much room and so e are quite weighty out of the water. In the water some of them need 3 to 5 lbs additional weight just to sink themselves. Jackets are the worst of every world.

 

[phoenix31tt]

Some of those jackets are huge and a pain to travel with because they take up so much room and so e are quite weighty out of the water. In the water some of them need 3 to 5 lbs additional weight just to sink themselves. Jackets are the worst of every world.

couldn't agree more... my suitcase got a lot roomier/lighter and i went from 8lbs to 2lbs...

i do agree that no one BC can suffice for all bodies of water so it all depends on where you dive and how often you dive there... i wouldn't pick up a new rig because i dive in cold water once or twice a year... it'd probably work out better to just rent or borrow (speaking within the limits of recreational diving of course). Some of you do many different types of diving even in the same temperature water (tech, rec, cave etc) so i can see the necessity for having different gear/gear configs...