BP/W..... one BC to rule them all??

[tbone1004]

I would sacrifice a balanced rig for local diving for not having to wear lead when in the salty stuff with an AL80 and having to wear less lead in SoCal. HP80's are stupid negative, almost 8lbs more negative than an AL80, but if I were you I would work with Tobin to optimize for SoCal and then in the future you can evaluate if a smaller wing is worthwhile.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I would sacrifice a balanced rig for local diving for not having to wear lead when in the salty stuff with an AL80 and having to wear less lead in SoCal. HP80's are stupid negative, almost 8lbs more negative than an AL80, but if I were you I would work with Tobin to optimize for SoCal and then in the future you can evaluate if a smaller wing is worthwhile.

So you would (presumably) go with Tobin and tell someone to dive in FRESHWATER with a very heavy tank, a heavy steel plate, a thin suit so that they are VERY overweighted with zero ditchable lead in their home waters? Under what circumstances would this be considered safe?

I'm amazed at some of the advice I see on this board..


It was not so long ago that I got BANNED entirely from the board because I was determined to have been "promoting unsafe dive practices" and this was associated with my contention that i could do a dive with a timer, at a known depth, in a location where it would be impossible to get deeper AND with a buddy who was wearing a computer AND for a dive that I had done 50 or more times...

 

[tbone1004]

depending on body composition, he should be no more than about 4lbs overweight with a SS plate and a HP80. Total negative ballast at beginning of the dive will be about 15lbs. Offset that by buoyancy of the wetsuit, and you're not dangerously overweighted. For ballast calculations with an empty tank, it's about 9lbs. 3mm should be somewhere around 5lbs positive, so total of 4lbs overweight. Yeah that's VERY overweighted

You can kick up 4lbs from the bottom, if you can't you have no business diving. Do the math before you explode about unsafe gear recommendations

 

[cool_hardware52]

Hey Tobin, do you think a SS plate would work in fresh water with a 3mm? The lake isn't the best diving by any stretch: but it is only 40 minutes away which means I will probably be in the fresh water more often than anywhere else.

Would I be forced to run AL80's for fresh water?

It's not what I think, i.e. an opinion, it's a math problem. How much ballast do you need? To answer that you need to know the buoyancy of your suit, the buoyancy of the cylinders you will be using and your personal buoyancy. A SS plate and harness is about -6 and a reg is about -2. If you need 8+ lbs of ballast then the SS plate is a reasonable choice.

Tobin

 

[boulderjohn]

In general, I find my SS plate to be the most versatile. I primarily use my aluminum plate when I really want to save luggage weight while traveling or when diving with heavy steel doubles. I just finished a trip in which I would be diving in two very different conditions: in the ocean with AL doubles and a 5mm suit, and in a cave with steel LP 104 doubles and a dry suit. I needed to avoid bringing a cargo plane for my gear, so I decided to just bring the SS BP. I didn't need to add much weight in the ocean, so it was a good choice there. I was very much overweighted in the cave, which I did not enjoy, but that was manageable.

Ideally, if you are diving very different conditions, you should have both.

 

[RJP]

In general, I find my SS plate to be the most versatile. I primarily use my aluminum plate when I really want to save luggage weight while traveling or when diving with heavy steel doubles. I just finished a trip in which I would be diving in two very different conditions: in the ocean with AL doubles and a 5mm suit, and in a cave with steel LP 104 doubles and a dry suit. I needed to avoid bringing a cargo plane for my gear, so I decided to just bring the SS BP. I didn't need to add much weight in the ocean, so it was a good choice there. I was very much overweighted in the cave, which I did not enjoy, but that was manageable.

Ideally, if you are diving very different conditions, you should have both.

I also own both, but the Al plate is really only used for diving with steel doubles. The steel plate travels everywhere... I'll leave deodorant, toothpaste, and clothing home in order to accommodate the weight in my luggage.

 

[KDAD]

[The steel plate travels everywhere... I'll leave deodorant, toothpaste, and clothing home in order to accommodate the weight in my luggage.

Keep me informed of your next liveaboard trip. I will make sure to go the week before

I hardly use my al plate and will also do what it takes to accommodate my ss plate on a trip, although it is not all that heavy. It ends up being more of a space issue than weight. My scuba gear also takes precedence over my creature comforts

 

[Oldbear]

I bought one of Tobin's SS BPs and I love it. I used it in fresh water in New Mexico with a dry suit and now in the tropics. They are truly versital for so many types of diving.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

depending on body composition, he should be no more than about 4lbs overweight with a SS plate and a HP80. Total negative ballast at beginning of the dive will be about 15lbs. Offset that by buoyancy of the wetsuit, and you're not dangerously overweighted. For ballast calculations with an empty tank, it's about 9lbs. 3mm should be somewhere around 5lbs positive, so total of 4lbs overweight. Yeah that's VERY overweighted

You can kick up 4lbs from the bottom, if you can't you have no business diving. Do the math before you explode about unsafe gear recommendations

Even these calculations are irrelevant and you know that. The determination of safety would be made when the suit is fully compressed and the tank is FULL. That is what the diver would have to kick off the bottom - NOT in shallow water with the suit expanded and the tank MT.

Even if the diver is strong and CAN kick off the bottom, it is still not safe!

Why recommend that someone DELIBERATELY over weight themselves with more ballast than they need and NO ditchable lead... all so they can dive somewhere else, with a different suit and be OK?

It would be far safer to dive without the extra ballast in freshwater and then add lead when moving to cold water ocean dives.

I personally dive with a negative steel tank, with a 2-3 mm suit, aluminum plate, zero lead and to be honest, I am heavier than I like, but it is reasonable. However, my BMI is in the obese range, I am diving in saltwater where I need another 6-7 lbs of lead (versus freshwater).

This is very different than recommending a new diver use a very negative tank in freshwater with a heavy steel plate and a thin suit. Don't you all remember the SB moderator who died not too long ago - simply because she was too heavy in like 12-15 ft of water?

Even Tobin, mentions doing the math.. but he does not actually do the math in this situation... Why? Probably because he knows it will not work out unless the OP is a very buoyant "fat guy". Not impossible, but I wouldn't make that assumption.

 

[lucca brassi]

I personally dive with a negative steel tank, with a 2-3 mm suit, aluminum plate, zero lead and to be honest, I am heavier than I like, but it is reasonable. However, my BMI is in the obese range, I am diving in saltwater where I need another 6-7 lbs of lead (versus freshwater).

me to ...http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/dir/507729-wet-suit-steel-doubles-who-dive-kit.html