BP/W & Long Hose In a PADI IE Exam

[ddmattos]

Not quite sure why it would be disconcerting for you, to see the OP try and take Quality dive instruction to a higher level, with PADI. We have already seen some GUE instructors that have taught full OW courses to non-divers, turning them into extremely capable certified OW divers, using Bp/wing, long hose, and all the major DIR and GUE ideas that fit into an introductory course...the students found it very easy to get perfect trim and bouyancy, because it was taught from the first moment they got in the water. The students NEVER were taught the massively IGNORANT "skill" of kneeling to demonstrate anything, and so they had no bad habits that had to be fixed.

GUE will never be big....that is not it's mission. On the other hand, there are "some" brilliant people in the PADI system, and I would love to see more take on the common sense ideas of DIR, and incorporate this into introductory PADI dive classes--as Peter Guy has done. Maybe it's time for PADI to take another big JUMP, to a higher level.

I was lucky to be pointed to such an instructor. OW students generally do not know what trim is and will copy what ever posture/trim the instructor uses. This can't be stressed enough.

Read my original post. He wants to teach in a full DIR rig because he wants his students to not have to buy gear twice as they progress in their diving careers. My point was that MOST of his students won't even buy gear, but will rent it from whatever boat/resort they go to....and they will not get BP/W/Long hoses.

Now if he said he wants to teach in a BP/W/long hose on occasion to show students an alternative configuration, OK, but he needs to think of THEIR needs not HIS.

BP/W is just another BCD option and should be treated as such. I was lucky to be able to try a jacket, back inflate and decided on BP/W. It packs very nicely for travel as well.

Long hose alternate configuration is becoming a mute point with all the inline inflators with a built in second stage. They have to donate their primary.

I think you are right.

And people HERE have a hard time understanding this, they need to realize there's a whole world outside of scubaboard

We realize this very well. We also realize how some people are so anti BP/W that you are doing a disservice to your students. They should be exposed to the main types of BCD's before putting money down. Instead of selling them a BCD that was similar to the rentals they used during class.

Good luck on the IE which ever you choose.

 

[RJP]

Thanks all for your inputs. Has anyone taken the IE in a full DIR gear (or seen it done in an IE)? How did the examiner react?

Also sinceol the rescue test involves complete gear removal (victim and rescuer) while giving one rescue breath every 5 seconds, the instructor candidate assigned to "rescue" the guy in a BPW is certainly not going to have fun.

Well... I opted for using a standard rec rig. But to give you some idea about IE reactions to "the unexpected" I did get dinged for frog kicking during one of my in-water presentations. I was told that I should use "the same kick that OW students will use" so as to not confuse them.

When I explained that the students where I trained DID frog kick... I was informed that was not possible.

I wish someone had told all our poor OW students... frog kicking around in their BP/W rigs.

Yes - all our OW students are in BP/W; they are shown back-inflate and jacket-style BCDs during class and told why we use BP/W. The instructor and DM staff all dive BP/W, 7-ft hose, etc. (I'm guessing those non-presumptuous shops that only teach in jackets don't ever show their students a BP/W.)

My point was that MOST of his students won't even buy gear, but will rent it from whatever boat/resort they go to....and they will not get BP/W/Long hoses.

A great many of our students DO buy their own gear. And most of those that do so buy a BP/W rig. If the students you are training are NOT happily buying the gear that you are training them in... perhaps there's a cause-and-effect relationship?

 

[Hawkwood]

It will all come down to the Examiner, not what folks on SB say was their experience when they took their IE, or others who have not done the IE say it should be.

 

[RJP]

It will all come down to the Examiner, not what folks on SB say was their experience when they took their IE, or others who have not done the IE say it should be.

"It's the IE, not the forum!"

:d

 

[Pavao]

We realize this very well. We also realize how some people are so anti BP/W that you are doing a disservice to your students. They should be exposed to the main types of BCD's before putting money down. Instead of selling them a BCD that was similar to the rentals they used during class.

Good luck on the IE which ever you choose.

Well, that was exactly what tursiops said and I responded to it, execpt, he said to not shove a BP/W down a students throat, because that might not be what that student needs/wants, just as you're saying don't shove a jacket BCD into a student throats see it now?

I don't see anyone being so anti BP/W here as you suggested, and ironically, actually we suggested doing exactly what you're asking, which is to not sell what the INSTRUCTOR thinks is best.

I dive a BP/W on both tech and rec dives, I'd also suggest someone gets a BP/W in most cases, but certainly not 100% of the time, BP/W is not the only thing that works.

I would be much happier knowing instructors are teaching divers to dive the right way, regardless of what they wear, rather than putting them on BP/W and believing they fixed everything now that their students are using the gear of their choice.

Btw, my IE was done a long time ago , but thanks anyways

 

[Hawkwood]

...

I would be much happier knowing instructors are teaching divers to dive the right way, regardless of what they wear, rather than putting them on BP/W and believing they fixed everything now that their students are using the gear of their choice.

...

Very well said.

 

[ddmattos]

Pavao please reread post #21. I'm not looking for any negative discord. But your interpretations of what I wrote is wrong.

Well, that was exactly what tursiops said and I responded to it, execpt, he said to not shove a BP/W down a students throat, because that might not be what that student needs/wants, just as you're saying don't shove a jacket BCD into a student throats see it now?

How did you get any 'pushing down throats' BP/W from the following? "BP/W is just another BCD option and should be treated as such. I was lucky to be able to try a jacket, back inflate and decided on BP/W. It packs very nicely for travel as well."

I don't see anyone being so anti BP/W here as you suggested, and ironically, actually we suggested doing exactly what you're asking, which is to not sell what the INSTRUCTOR thinks is best.

What I meant by anti BP/W is when they associate it with a certain path and not even consider it. Just saying treat as just another option.

Did you miss the posts with the mentioning of kool aid and DIR?

I dive a BP/W on both tech and rec dives, I'd also suggest someone gets a BP/W in most cases, but certainly not 100% of the time, BP/W is not the only thing that works.

OK. Again, just treat it as another option.
Obviously BP/W are not the only thing that works. They all work.

I would be much happier knowing instructors are teaching divers to dive the right way, regardless of what they wear, rather than putting them on BP/W and believing they fixed everything now that their students are using the gear of their choice.

We agree on the instructor but where on earth did you get this from post #21?
I wrote: "I was lucky to be pointed to such an instructor. OW students generally do not know what trim is and will copy what ever posture/trim the instructor uses. This can't be stressed enough."
All to do with skills and nothing about BP/W fixing anything.

Btw, my IE was done a long time ago , but thanks anyways

Are you trolling?

You really need to reread post #21.

 

[Divetech99]

tursiops -- I did not say "the 7ft hose is not a good idea" but that a 40" primary was a BETTER way to go in my opinion. There really IS a difference between saying is "not good" and something is "better."

But, and I'll merely re-emphasize this point -- it is my opinion that the most important gear to wear in the IE is the gear that YOU will be most comfortable using. As far as any "students" -- what issue could there possibly be with a BP/W or primary donate? The BP/W is MUCH simpler than even the simplest jacket and primary donate is primary donate -- whether you use an Air2 or necklaced rig.

OP -- BTW, when I did my IE (again, 6 years ago), I was bemused to see the local staff who assisted in BP/W's.

Thanks Peter. Agree with you.

To Peter or anyone. Here's the dilemma. As you know, the IE includes in water teaching demonstrations where you have to simulate teaching a class by describing the steps of a skill, demonstrating it, and have the "students" (other IE candidates) perform the skill. Take alternate air source sharing. If the "students" assigned to your demo are all in Jacket BCs and you are on a BP/W with necklace backup reg and a long hose primary reg, how would you demo air sharing? I guess it's gonna look very awkward in the IE if you do your simulated teaching by explaining/demonstrating both methods.

I've asked around and so far, no one has taken or seen anyone take the IE in a DIR gear config.

Hopefully a PADI Examiner can chime in and render advice.

 

[Hawkwood]

What has your CD suggested?

 

[tursiops]

Thanks Peter. Agree with you.

To Peter or anyone. Here's the dilemma. As you know, the IE includes in water teaching demonstrations where you have to simulate teaching a class by describing the steps of a skill, demonstrating it, and have the "students" (other IE candidates) perform the skill. Take alternate air source sharing. If the "students" assigned to your demo are all in Jacket BCs and you are on a BP/W with necklace backup reg and a long hose primary reg, how would you demo air sharing? I guess it's gonna look very awkward in the IE if you do your simulated teaching by explaining/demonstrating both methods.

I've asked around and so far, no one has taken or seen anyone take the IE in a DIR gear config.

Hopefully a PADI Examiner can chime in and render advice.

What does your CD say?