BP/W: I officially don't get it

[Randy43068]

ya know, I finally read your sig line for what it says, not what I THOUGHT it said.

Logarithms for sure..

 

[DOkie]

I think maybe simply saying that a jakcet BC makes diving easier for a new diver is too general of a statement. I have to admit that I would tend to agree, but not from the standpoint that it makes diving "easier" but from the perspective that it may make diving more "comfortable" (for lack of better words) for the new diver.

From my experience in teaching classes the wrap around feel of the jacket tends to make some divers feel more secure. I've had some associate it with just like being in a life jacket. There also seems to be a difference in bouyancy control. Now I'm not talking about perfect placement in the water, but the simple "up and down" stuff. The students through our LDS rarely wear the same BC during their classes and dives so I have asked what the divers think about various BC's and more than once I have been told that it was easier to know how much air they put in or took out in the jacket styles and that it was easier to control how much air was put in or taken out. (Simply because they could "feel it") During exercises where students are made to remove their gear and put it back on, the ones that struggle the least usually are wearing jackets. Maybe it's just because of the familiarity of the object. Generally where we dive, the water is rarely flat calm. It does appear that there is a significant stress reduction in the students who are in 1 - 2 foot chop on the surface in a jacket BC vs. thoses wearing others (the ones in "others" have a tendency to overkick and tire themselves out because they think they're tipping forward).

However, I also have to admit that there have been several instances where the jacket has made students feel claustrophobic. I also think it's important to not let a student get "stuck" on one style of BC. I've had new divers who absolutely, without a doubt, would NEVER dive with anything other than a jacket. But when they were given a back float to try have never looked back.

I do find it interesting though that the debate around Jacket and BP/W always turns to a "new diver" vs. "tech diver" debate. From my experience (and again, I am not generalizing), my set up never gets a second look from new divers. But my husbands gets crowded around with "that's cool", and "how do I get a setup like that". So I do think that the stereotype of the BC's can play a small part in the gear that a new diver purchases.

And finally... If I am understanding right, the consensus here is that you are a better diver if you have a BP/W (not by all of course - but most). This could be said for all equipment I suppose but each person has an individual preference. After all, it is a solo sport (whether diving with a buddy or not) and your gear should be what you are comfortable with and what works for you, the individual. I really couldn't care less what gear anyone one else is wearing and I can honestly say that I've ever spent my dive time judging someone else's placement in the water. I'm too busy trying to figure out a safe way to get inside the wreck... Ok... Maybe just trying to find a big enough hole.... Hmmm Looked big enough.... Oh crap, here we go again...

 

[Randy43068]

Better diver? Depends on who's doing the judging. I've seen an awful lot of hoopty s-h-i-t-t-y divers who think they're all that and a bag of chips..
Oh, and in that group are divers diving a BP/wing and of course the jacket BC.

It's all pretty damn subjective... Personally, I think a BP/W is the way to go IF you get some training other than the typical OW and AOW the agencies are offering.

 

[drdaddy]

I do find it interesting though that the debate around Jacket and BP/W always turns to a "new diver" vs. "tech diver" debate. From my experience (and again, I am not generalizing), my set up never gets a second look from new divers. But my husbands gets crowded around with "that's cool", and "how do I get a setup like that". So I do think that the stereotype of the BC's can play a small part in the gear that a new diver purchases.

And finally... If I am understanding right, the consensus here is that you are a better diver if you have a BP/W (not by all of course - but most). This could be said for all equipment I suppose but each person has an individual preference. After all, it is a solo sport (whether diving with a buddy or not) and your gear should be what you are comfortable with and what works for you, the individual. I really couldn't care less what gear anyone one else is wearing and I can honestly say that I've ever spent my dive time judging someone else's placement in the water. I'm too busy trying to figure out a safe way to get inside the wreck... Ok... Maybe just trying to find a big enough hole.... Hmmm Looked big enough.... Oh crap, here we go again...

Actually, the majority of people in the world use a BCD. I've tried both BP & BCD and I prefer my BCD (SeaQuest/AquaLung Pro-QD). I have found a lot of the verbal people on this board prefer BPs - that's OK. But the push/hype for the "tech look" or "pseudo-tech" should not be the driving factor in what one chooses for equipment. Whatever works for you is what is best.

I'm repeating myself, because I want to save some fellow divers from the foolishness of the push/hype for the "tech look" or "pseudo-tech".

I'll never forget that ripoff dive shop that took all their beginning open water students out in their brand new expensive drysuits and BPs. I thought, as I watched one guy who could barely waddle in and out of the water, "a fool and his money is soon parted". Oh, and then they called the dive because of thunder and lightening. I guarantee that the majority of this class is not diving today, and thousands of dollars of new equipment is wasting away.

Prematurely buying a lot of expensive equipment that is soon going to sit in a closet or appear on ebay is not to be recommended. Start diving with standard equipment, watch what others are diving with, let your interest develop, and then ask your fellow divers about their equipment, try it out and then make your decision to buy.

 

[MSilvia]

And finally... If I am understanding right, the consensus here is that you are a better diver if you have a BP/W (not by all of course - but most).

I'm a big fan of BP/W rigs, but I don't believe that at all. I don't believe it personally, and I don't believe many well-informed divers believe it either. The gear doesn't make the diver, but some gear may help a good diver dive better.
I'd put that more strongly, but I don't wish to be offensive.

Prematurely buying a lot of expensive equipment that is soon going to sit in a closet or appear on ebay is not to be recommended.

I agree completely. That's one reason I advise divers I know to at least try a BP/W before buying any BC. I owned several BCs before I bought my backplate, and every one of my earlier rigs was significantly more expensive than what I dive now. If I bought it first, I not only would have saved money on the initial purchase, but I wouldn't have had to buy several different BCs before getting one that made sense for the diving I do.

I'm repeating myself, because I want to save some fellow divers from the foolishness of the push/hype for the "tech look" or "pseudo-tech".

I don't know of anyone hyping the appearance of a BP/W rig, or pushing people to use one... unless you consider raising awareness of a system with a lot of strengths and little awareness outside of online forums "pushing". Most of the BP/W advocates I've encountered like the rig because of the ways it benefits them... not because it makes divers tech-pretty.

 

[Gombessa]

I'm repeating myself, because I want to save some fellow divers from the foolishness of the push/hype for the "tech look" or "pseudo-tech".

I don't know anyone who has advocated a bp/w because it gives you a "tech look." I think the vast majority of the posts here, as well as "bcd v. bp/w" threads on scubaboard, tend to focus on substantive differences between the two (weighting and trim characteristics, adjustability, cost, fit, ease of donning/doffing, etc.).

I'll never forget that ripoff dive shop that took all their beginning open water students out in their brand new expensive drysuits and BPs. I thought, as I watched one guy who could barely waddle in and out of the water, "a fool and his money is soon parted".

It doesn't look like anything you've written above is exclusive to backplates at all. That "waddling student" could have been in a brand new jacket BCD and it doesn't change the analysis one bit. In fact a quality bp/w package can very well be cheaper than a jacket BC, perhaps making his shop less of a "ripoff" and him less of a "fool" than his buddy, who spent a couple hundred more elsewhere for a jacket BCD. Just saying...

 

[shoturtle]

Are we serious, there is a very strong push/hype on this board about BP/W and that is why there have been so many threads where people flames the BC user. Come on get really, just look at some of the past BC discussion that became a BP/W rally cry.

 

[DOkie]

Quote:
Originally Posted by DOkie
And finally... If I am understanding right, the consensus here is that you are a better diver if you have a BP/W (not by all of course - but most).

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSilvia
I'm a big fan of BP/W rigs, but I don't believe that at all. I don't believe it personally, and I don't believe many well-informed divers believe it either. The gear doesn't make the diver, but some gear may help a good diver dive better.
I'd put that more strongly, but I don't wish to be offensive.


So...... If I'm a good diver in a jacket, I'll be a better diver with a BP/W?

 

[MSilvia]

Sure, there are a lot of very vocal BP/W divers here, but I don't recall "looking tech" being among the reasons people recommend them. Frankly, I could care less about how it looks... I just love how it performs.

So...... If I'm a good diver in a jacket, I'll be a better diver with a BP/W?

No, but if you regularly dive in conditions that most benefit from using one, it might make the experience more enjoyable for you. I know it does for me. It isn't going to change your skill level one way or the other, except that you might gain additional proficiency in setting up and using a backplate rig. Frankly, I think the idea it will make someone a more skillful diver is more than a little bit stupid.

 

[Adobo]

I don't know anyone who has advocated a bp/w because it gives you a "tech look." I think the vast majority of the posts here, as well as "bcd v. bp/w" threads on scubaboard, tend to focus on substantive differences between the two (weighting and trim characteristics, adjustability, cost, fit, ease of donning/doffing, etc.).

It doesn't look like anything you've written above is exclusive to backplates at all. That "waddling student" could have been in a brand new jacket BCD and it doesn't change the analysis one bit. In fact a quality bp/w package can very well be cheaper than a jacket BC, perhaps making his shop less of a "ripoff" and him less of a "fool" than his buddy, who spent a couple hundred more elsewhere for a jacket BCD. Just saying...

If you want to convince some of these folks, you are going to have to do more than just bring facts, logic, reasoning and concrete examples.