BP/W: I officially don't get it

[Sas]

This was the post I was talking about number 212. did not mean to ruffle your feathers.

I stand by what I said in that quote.

 

[scubafanatic]

Considering the skills needed to adjust a backplate (pre-threaded, as most would be in that situation) are not really that different from the skills needed to adjust a seatbelt, I think you underestimate your students a smidge.

.....um, sounds like you missed the 'memo' about the new Halcyon Infinity BP/harness system that was JUST introduced ......apparently, the ultimate bastion of DIR-ness has finally relented and is dipping a toe into the recreational pool with their new easy-to-adjust webbing system......it's almost like hearing the Death Star has replaced Darth Vader with 'hugs and puppy dogs' !

 

[shoturtle]

They don't, in my experience. I never heard of a BP/W until I read this forum. I only heard of Deep Sea Supply late last year too, and I dive and read Scubaboard a lot. I am sure I heard it mentioned but it passed me over like any other brand, not one that is known for their BP/Ws. Perhaps the fact I use Adblock might have something to do with this

I still get new divers who ask me about my "strange BC" and I dive in a place where BP/Ws are fairly common. The percentage of divers who read Scubaboard is very small, you must realise. On the local forum too, the percentage of divers who read it is small out of all the divers in my area. And the ones that are there tend to be experienced divers who already know about BP/Ws.

Local shops just do not seem to sell new divers BP/Ws (with two exceptions that I know of(. It tends to only be brought up when a diver is pursuing more advanced education and then the shop has gotten two sales - the original BC and the BP/W (which in my experience, is what nearly everyone who ends up with both dives the most).

Given how few new divers start with BP/Ws it would be interesting to see if it was reversed - how many new divers would go from BP/W to jackets. I suspect it would be much lower than the reverse. In my experience few divers switch back to a jacket after trying a BP/W and in all honesty I think a BP/W suits most divers better than a jacket BC.

We will never know about bp/w to jacket question. I would be one that would switch. I just like to give new divers the facts. I think they will be able to decide for themselves. And to me comfort is key on having a good dive, no matter which system ones decide on. But in the NorthEast US there is a ton of info on the bp/w they rent out the ymca pool for demo in some area.

 

[Sas]

We will never know about bp/w to jacket question. I would be one that would switch. I just like to give new divers the facts. I think they will be able to decide for themselves. And to me comfort is key on having a good dive, no matter which system ones decide on. But in the NorthEast US there is a ton of info on the bp/w they rent out the ymca pool for demo in some area.

I agree - new divers should be given the facts. I actually think too many shops push students away from BP/Ws though so whenever a new diver asks me about gear I tell them to try out as many of these as possible - jacket bc, back inflate bc, different types of BP/Ws and things like the transpac (and I can provide back inflate bc and one type of BP/W for them to try ).

That is okay, I just wanted to point out that it is impossible to prove.

No, it is not *impossible*. You could survey most active divers after they have tried both. But, no one would bother. The point I am trying to make is that there is a huge bias in stores to sell people jacket style BCs (I am not sure why, perhaps the margin is higher? My BP/W was about $500 cheaper than my BC...) yet nearly everyone I know who has tried both prefers a BP/W.

 

[shoturtle]

No, it is not *impossible*. You could survey most active divers after they have tried both. But, no one would bother. The point I am trying to make is that there is a huge bias in stores to sell people jacket style BCs (I am not sure why, perhaps the margin is higher? My BP/W was about $500 cheaper than my BC...) yet nearly everyone I know who has tried both prefers a BP/W.

You are right they will not do those survey. But I really believe the divers that favor a back inflate would favor a bp/w more readily. And the one that prefer a jacket over the back inflate would not take to a bp/w to quickly. The BP/W is more intune with the style the back inflate prefers. There are way to many different people out there with personal preferences, so I still say it is impossible to prove.

Just give the new divers the info, it will be the gear they will dive. And let them decide. No pressure pitches.

 

[DOkie]

At the risk of killing this thread, I'll throw in my two cents. (For what it's worth). I think the whole debate is as simple as personal preference and I don't think it's really fair to say that one set up is better than another. My husband and I have dove together for a loooong time. We dive the identical conditions. We do the same dives (deep, wreck penetration, cold water, etc.) and have two totally different set-ups. I dive with an old beat up Scuba Pro jacket. He dives with a BP/W. He dives mitts, I dive gloves. He loves his split fins, I hate them. Right down to the type of lights we use and how we set up our ponies. I've dove with pretty much every other type and always return to my jacket. He won't give his up for anything.

As far as the condition of the gear showing the skill of the diver... All of the patches on my drysuit have a story and most of them just prove that I am alot clumsier (word?) than most people (or that I try to get through spaces that I shouldn't - everything looks bigger under water right?)

 

[shoturtle]

At the risk of killing this thread, I'll throw in my two cents. (For what it's worth). I think the whole debate is as simple as personal preference and I don't think it's really fair to say that one set up is better than another. My husband and I have dove together for a loooong time. We dive the identical conditions. We do the same dives (deep, wreck penetration, cold water, etc.) and have two totally different set-ups. I dive with an old beat up Scuba Pro jacket. He dives with a BP/W. He dives mitts, I dive gloves. He loves his split fins, I hate them. Right down to the type of lights we use and how we set up our ponies. I've dove with pretty much every other type and always return to my jacket. He won't give his up for anything.

As far as the condition of the gear showing the skill of the diver... All of the patches on my drysuit have a story and most of them just prove that I am alot clumsier (word?) than most people (or that I try to get through spaces that I shouldn't - everything looks bigger under water right?)

+1
Dive with what you are comfortable with is the right way to dive.

 

[elan]

I agree - new divers should be given the facts. I actually think too many shops push students away from BP/Ws though so whenever a new diver asks me about gear I tell them to try out as many of these as possible - jacket bc, back inflate bc, different types of BP/Ws and things like the transpac (and I can provide back inflate bc and one type of BP/W for them to try ).



No, it is not *impossible*. You could survey most active divers after they have tried both. But, no one would bother. The point I am trying to make is that there is a huge bias in stores to sell people jacket style BCs (I am not sure why, perhaps the margin is higher? My BP/W was about $500 cheaper than my BC...) yet nearly everyone I know who has tried both prefers a BP/W.

As a side note, you know I was pretty much away from taking any course with PADI and after finally deciding to go and finally get my AOW and a couple specialties required for my Rescue course I finally get a chance to look at the way PADI teaches the techniques after getting some dives under the belt. I realized that Jacket style BC works the best for the style this agency teaches. People rarely stay horizontal at times other than moving from one place to another. Most things are done vertical, descends, ascends, drills all kneeled on the bottom. The "famous" PADI meditation hovering requires vertical position. It's all best done in jacket style. I found it extremely uncomfortable I would say painful to do all those things with my doubles, kneeling on the platform. Though I had no troubles maintaining horizontal position just staying half a foot above the platform one of the instructors was consistently insisting on me kneeling and do all things from the kneeling. After the second time I just swallowed it and decided to obey what they want and do what they say and just take the pain. Though my instructor was descent about me floating (he holds cert from other agencies including TDI and he is a tech diver himself) he explained me that during the course they have to obey all the procedures due to the liability.
Filtering that crap that would not work for me I still get many useful things from his training and finally calmed down having the AOW just to make sure I'm not banned from taking any charters due to some nonsense requirements.

To summarize as of my observation jacket style is perfectly tailored to the style that is tought by one of the biggest agencies in North America. The manufacturers just try to take their piece of the pie. PADI is wide spread here so here is their stake.


AS for trying different things you are generally right but the thing is that many times you need to trust people who do the diving you want to do and study their style and gear requirements deeper to actually being able to evaluate this or that piece as your senses can fool you. It happened to me when I got my first fins I got blade fins (Mares Quattros) and after using them just for flutter kick I figured out they were hard on my legs and got splits. After learning more about the techniques I figured out that the blades is the only way to go if I want to do different kicks. So now I'm back to the blades and I got Turtles, first two dives were the least pleasant and awkward dives since the time I have started using the splits. I could have given up with Turtles but I kept on going and after the 6th dive after getting used to them (their pocket is shorter then most of the comfy splits) I would not trade them back. I love them now. I got that sharp feeling of the blade that I had with my Quattros and I can do all the techniques (especially turns and back) twice as effective. So my point is sometime trying might not get you the right feeling ans you are accustomed to a different equipment and style.

 

[peterbj7]

One reason dive shops steer beginners towards jacket BCs is that they're easier to use at that stage of a diver's career. Nothing wrong in that. Beginner skiers find the "new" deeply waisted skis easy to turn and control. Many experienced skiers prefer more traditional barely waisted skis. Or motorcycling - I ride a machine capable of almost 190mph, but there's no way I could have started with that.

Horses for courses, as well as personal preference.

 

[cool_hardware52]

One reason dive shops steer beginners towards jacket BCs is that they're easier to use at that stage of a diver's career.

The reality is most dive shops steer new divers to jackets because it's easier for the dive shop...... (and more profitable too)

Tobin