BP/W for a New Diver

[seasss]

You've got plenty of info to mull over. However, I might add one thing: As you are only 5'1", you might find that an AL80 tank is long for you, something you will experience as your reg hitting you in the back of the head and the bottom of the tank pressing on your butt and making arching your back difficult. What might help is a setup that gets the tank off your back a bit, which means using an STA and perhaps a plate with a deeper spine. Tobin's plates are great--I use his short SS plate and also short Kydex plate. However, I use an STA with them. Tobin's plate are flatter than most, and Dive Rite plates are also on the flatter side. Halcyon and Oxy make short plates with deeper spines. So this is something you might want to think about.

Thank you for the advice!

 

[Davemohio]

Seasss,

I am in the same position as you. Ready to buy a BP/W.

I am not a retail expert, but I see more wings every time I dive. Locally and especially in Florida.

You have received and will receive some great advice here, from folks more knowledgeable than I.

 

[Chuckitall]

My wife is a little bigger. She dives a Halycon Aluminum plate small with 30 lb wing. She never uses weights with steel tanks even with 7mill suits. This is the way I look at it Aluminum 2 lbs and steel 5lbs. Not enounh to not take my steel plate on vacation. A steel plate will guarantee you not putting up with 10, 12, 14 lbs on a stupid weight belt with an aluminum tank. My other opinion is stay away form STA's unless really needed. Halycon needs them DSS does not. Remember any plate that you buy without cam band slots you will need a STA. I have dived BP's for years and will never go back to jacket BC's/

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Since you're smaller I don't carry a plate that fits you. I do sell a nice 23 lb HOG wing and a 30lb HOG wing. Both are narrow profile. I have both al and steel plates personally and use them for different conditions. Steel for drysuit and heavire wetsuit. Al for 3mm or less.

Davemohio, you have to come to Scubafest next weekend and look me up. I will have plates and wings and be happy to go over them with you.

 

[Deep South Divers]

My other opinion is stay away form STA's unless really needed. Halycon needs them DSS does not. Remember any plate that you buy without cam band slots you will need a STA. I have dived BP's for years and will never go back to jacket BC's/

The DSS wings hold the tank perfectly stable without an STA -- even the big 130s my husband likes.

(snip)

...camband slots are very nice and an STA is an unnecessary nuisance.

Hm. Interesting that some people are of the opinion of "no STA." I have never seen that before now.

My opinion of STAs is more like this:

"How do I know when I need a single tank adapter?" I have not seen a wing that I thought was worth a darn with out a single tank adapter.

I find that a STA-less wing tends to hold the tank valve/reg TOO close to my head without a STA... And with the tank off, a STA'd rig holds together much more nicely because it's bolted together. For what it's worth, Halcyon USED to make STA-less wings but has since done away with the feature.

I'm a big fan of Halcyon wings but the "hourglass" Low-profile Oxycheq "light" STA originally designed by Scott Koplin.

Cam bands: I'm a pretty big fan of the new Highland cam bands that completely come apart when you release them. They make assembling your tank/rig MUCH easier than the traditional method because you can assemble it horizontally. A HUGE improvement over standard cam bands.

FWIW, DSS and Scubapro also have similar "full release" cam band designs, but the Highlands are super sweet.

Oxcycheq make great equipment. I like steel and will also suggest no more than a 30lb wing.

Ditto. Love Oxycheq's hardware, plates and STAs. Prefer Halcyon's 30-pound Eclipse wing and would recommend it. It's a great starting point, and will serve you for doing any sort of diving you want to do. I would buy additional plates or wings later as "accessories" to the rig I'm recommending if you want to make changes or improvements in more specialized areas with the rig.

It sounds ideal to use a steel backplate and not have to wear additional weights, but I worry about being overweighted...

Not likely. In fact, don't get your heart set on the '"no weight" concept... You'll probably still have to wear a little, depending on water salinity, temperature, and your exposure protection... Which is good. Stick with the steel, IMHO.

As well, I am conflicted as to whether it is best to have a smaller 18-20lb lift wing for warm water and a larger one for cold water, or if I should have one 30lb lift wing to serve both functions. I see people recommending both stances... (of course I understand that everyone's preferences are different, but still..)

Often a wing smaller than 30 pounds is actually a SHORTENED 30-pound wing... In other words, it's the same width and therefore no more streamlined than a 30 pound wing. The whole idea of having such a small amount of lift (compared to traditional BCs) is the streamlining... So if there's no streamlining advantage to the smaller wing, there's no advantage.

Stick with the 30-pounder. Accessorize later with a smaller wing if you like the idea later.

A 30lb wing is too big for warm water?

No. In fact, the 30-pounder is MADE for warm water. The 40-pounder is Halcyon's "cold water" version of a singles wing.

Would an 18-20lb lift wing be enough if I were to wear a 5mm wetsuit in warm water (I assume having to then wear more weight?)?

There's a lot of calculations that go into an answer, but as a whole, no. Generally speaking, wings with 18-20 lbs of lift are designed with the "no wetsuit" diver (as in "skin" or bathing suit only) in mind. What you're describing is a 30-pound wing.

Any thoughts on the Hollis S25 wing as a) being small enough for warm water, b) being large enough for cold water, and c) both?

Sorry, no experience with that particular wing. Will check it out next weekend. My favorite is the Halcyon Eclipse 30, although the Oxycheq Mach V is very interesting.

 

[cool_hardware52]

There's a lot of calculations that go into an answer, but as a whole, no. Generally speaking, wings with 18-20 lbs of lift are designed with the "no wetsuit" diver (as in "skin" or bathing suit only) in mind. What you're describing is a 30-pound wing.

Humm, not true at all. I design and build wings for a living. Why do we offer small (17 and 20 lbs) wings? Because thin suits only need small wings. Any BC needs to meet two criteria; float the rig at the surface if diver needs to ditch it, and compensate for the compression of the divers exposure suit.

A 3mm suit is typically 3-5 lbs positive.

A diver (of normal BMI) using no exposure suit and an al 80 could easily dive without any BC. That's how I learned to dive BTW. Starting the dive negative by 2-3 lbs and ending the dive positive by 2-3 lbs is pretty cool, and buoyancy can be controlled via lung volume.


Thin suits and al 80's = small wings

5mm suit , maybe a 20 lbs wing

7mm or drysuits need larger wings.

Tobin

 

[Deep South Divers]

Humm, not true at all. I design and build wings for a living.

Yes, Tobin... I know who you are. You and I have had many conversations in the past.

Why do we offer small (17 and 20 lbs) wings? Because thin suits only need small wings. Any BC needs to meet two criteria; float the rig at the surface if diver needs to ditch it, and compensate for the compression of the divers exposure suit.

I totally agree with you, and I, too, first learned to dive with no BC. We have talked about this before.

Sorry for interfering... My thought was that if she's always going to dive with no wetsuit or a 3mm, maybe a 17 or 20 pound wing might be a good idea... But was figuring that a 30-pound wing would a good "all around" size for a first wing in case she wants to try something other than mid-summer 3mm or less diving. What if she wants to pick up a shell or two on her dive? What if she wants to float at the surface a little (I'm not saying to go nuts here)?

Anyway, sorry to interfere. Feel free to sell her whatever you think you should sell her.

 

[3D diver]

So...dropped into a local shop to check out their BP/W offerings while my tanks got filled. They had a display of Halcyon gear & the price for their complete systems was ~$750. Is that typical?


And talk to me about dumping air from the wing. Where are the vents located? I see one in a low position---if you're oriented vertically---does the oral inflation tube have a pull to actuate dump vent too?

I know, I should have looked closer when I was in the shop, but the price tag triggered a primal cheapness response that sent me directly to the lead weight display.

 

[Deep South Divers]

For Halcyon gear, yes. Halcyon keeps a very tight control on their retail pricing, so don't expect their stuff to be priced any more competitively at any other retailer.

Tobin's gear is priced much more competitively. There are other offerings in the marketplace too, such as Oxycheq, Dive Rite and Hollis, but Tobin (DSS) possibly has the best values available.

I recently saw a thread for a full backplate, harness and singles wing, complete, for $299. There is a current thread about it, but I have no experience with that particular brand, so I can not testify for the quality of the gear.

 

[3D diver]

Thanks for your response.

My existing BC works fine. I think I'll address my weight & trim issues "bubba" style---lead, straps, tie wraps...maybe even a little duct tape---while I gather more BP/W information.