BP/W and emergencies

[HakoFugu]

Hey everyone!

Yeah, I know..... "Just what we need..... another bp/w thread....... " There seem to be lots of opinions on bp/w, most of them favorable. As a new diver who is just starting to buy gear, I have no opinion either way from an experience standpoint. But I do have a question: What's the consensus regarding advantages/disadvantages of bp/w in cases of emergencies? My understanding is that the thing is quite heavy, in some cases eliminating the need for a weight belt. In a situation where you need maximum buoyancy on the surface, where you would normally be able to quickly drop a weight belt or BC-integrated weights, isn't a bp/w more of a danger? And how does the system work on the surface in general? Does it try to pitch the diver over one way or another? Also, in regard to air volume, how do the wings compare to a jacket-style BC, again with emergencies in mind? I'm someone who will happily chuck comfort in the name of safety, so I'm wondering how a bp/w stacks up in this regard. I've heard lots in the way of function in normal situations, but not much about safety up top. Opinions? Experiences?

Thanks!

Joel

 

[The Chairman]

Most wings have more bouyancy then the traditional BCs so establishing buoyancy is not that big of an issue. Hopefully the diver is not so overweighted that this is an issue anyway.

The biggest issue is extrication. The Hoagarthian harness has no QRs and so it either has to be cut off or struggled off. This is it's main flaw in my eyes. I have heard some divers boast how easy it is to get off, and frankly I just don't buy it. We are reticent to cut anything that is not OURS, even in an emergency. When I do a rescue course we always seem to have one bp/wing. The partner is usually resented by the end of the day! But I do make sure that EVERYONE gets a chance to struggle one off... you need to know how to do it.

 

[R_Deluca]

Even if you are using a SS BP it only accounts for 6#. If you are in so much trouble where you need to ditch 6# just cut the stupid thing off!

 

[gfisher4792]

Hi Joel,

In regards to your surface performance questions, BP/W is fairly comparable to a back inflate BC, where if you overinflate on the surface, it can tend to pitch you forward. With that in mind, I've personally haven't had that problem (as setting up a couple of trim weights helps immensely). It just takes some practice, advice, etc. Plus, floating on your back is easy as well.

You also stated that you would chuck comfort over safety, and I contend that the two go hand in hand. If you're comfortable, I would say that you can deal with emergencies more easily, panic (arguably the biggest factor in emergencies) is mitigated, and in general, your stress level during diving will be much lower if you're comfortable.

Just my $0.02.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I agree with net doc that a pure hogarthian harness can be hard to remove. A quick release on the left shoulder strap, either in the traditional form of a metal weight belt type quick release buckle or the current trend toward a large fastex buckle, makes extrication a lot easier. Unlike cutting the strap it is also readily reversible.

I will use my quick release at times with my dry suit with it's bulky dry suit rings and will also use it on crowded dive boats, where I can release the strap while standing and then pivot the whole tank/BP assembly around and set it in front of me.

You can get backplates in several weights with ABS and 2 pound aluminum plates to 6-8 pound stainless steel plates. If you are diving with a thin exposure suit, sticking with an ABS or aluminum plate will allow more ditchable weight and in the case of an ABS plate is little different than having a conventional BC.

I have also found that as long as the weights are placed close to the backplate (usually with a set of integrated weight pouchs) that my BP/wing will float me vertically and slowly turn me face up on the surface. You can also snorkle face down very efficiently or stay on your back and swim easily on the surface.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Hey everyone!

Yeah, I know..... "Just what we need..... another bp/w thread....... " There seem to be lots of opinions on bp/w, most of them favorable. As a new diver who is just starting to buy gear, I have no opinion either way from an experience standpoint. But I do have a question: What's the consensus regarding advantages/disadvantages of bp/w in cases of emergencies? My understanding is that the thing is quite heavy, in some cases eliminating the need for a weight belt. In a situation where you need maximum buoyancy on the surface, where you would normally be able to quickly drop a weight belt or BC-integrated weights, isn't a bp/w more of a danger? And how does the system work on the surface in general? Does it try to pitch the diver over one way or another? Also, in regard to air volume, how do the wings compare to a jacket-style BC, again with emergencies in mind? I'm someone who will happily chuck comfort in the name of safety, so I'm wondering how a bp/w stacks up in this regard. I've heard lots in the way of function in normal situations, but not much about safety up top. Opinions? Experiences?

Thanks!

Joel

A standard weight plate is about 6 pounds so while it might reduce the amount of weight you need on a belt it won't eliminate it unless you are wearing very litrtle exposure protection. There are also aluminum and plastic plates available.

Weight belts can be used and ditched as with any other configuration and integrated weight pouches are also available if you like them.

I have never been pushed forward at the saurface in a bp/wing.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Most wings have more bouyancy then the traditional BCs so establishing buoyancy is not that big of an issue. Hopefully the diver is not so overweighted that this is an issue anyway.

The biggest issue is extrication. The Hoagarthian harness has no QRs and so it either has to be cut off or struggled off. This is it's main flaw in my eyes. I have heard some divers boast how easy it is to get off, and frankly I just don't buy it. We are reticent to cut anything that is not OURS, even in an emergency. When I do a rescue course we always seem to have one bp/wing. The partner is usually resented by the end of the day! But I do make sure that EVERYONE gets a chance to struggle one off... you need to know how to do it.

I've taught rescue classes while wearing a harness to students who were wearing them and it hasn't been a problem whether you buy it or not. LOL. I have no trouble getting out of my own gear or getting others out of theirs and doing a demonstration quality job of it for teaching purposes. Students catch on in short order.

 

[cornfed]

The biggest issue is extrication. The Hoagarthian harness has no QRs and so it either has to be cut off or struggled off. This is it's main flaw in my eyes. I have heard some divers boast how easy it is to get off, and frankly I just don't buy it. We are reticent to cut anything that is not OURS, even in an emergency.

Personally I think the rescue training offered to divers does little than give them a false sense of security. I recently had someone tell me the didn't want to set up someone else's DAN O2 kit because they were afraid to break something. I would have done it but I was busy stripping down so I could get in the water and help drag some poor sap in respirator distress out of the water.

Taking a class doesn't mean much. You have to go out and use the skills or you will hesitate. You'll make excuses like "I don't want to damage his equipment" or "what if I cut it and he wants to dive again later" and come up with "solutions" like quick releases. I'm sorry but this is all bull****. What good is the training if it doesn't help people realize what is and isn't important?

(Sorry, it's Monday and the coffee hasn't set in yet...)

 

[The Chairman]

I think the rescue training offered to divers does little than give them a false sense of security.

Unfortunately, you may be right for some but not ALL classes. I would suggest that potential students decide for themselves if the instructor is good, and if further training will be beneficial to them. I like the idea that NAUI stresses rescues from OW and up and includes not only "Rescue Diver" but "Advanced Rescue Diver". You can't learn it all in one class... but it's better than remaining ignorant of what to do when things go south.

Mike, I don't doubt that you have, but QRs make the job simpler, and I have never ever seen one fail in the water.

 

[eod]

The biggest issue is extrication. The Hoagarthian harness has no QRs and so it either has to be cut off or struggled off. This is it's main flaw in my eyes. I have heard some divers boast how easy it is to get off, and frankly I just don't buy it. We are reticent to cut anything that is not OURS, even in an emergency.

That is why I tell everyone I dive with that if they, for any reason, need to get me out of my harness, just cut it. Webbing is cheap. Fortunately it hasn't been needed yet, but I think (hope) that in an emergency, the webbing will be cut.

I feel the same with some of the quick releases on the market, if it is needed to get the person out of their rig fast, I will cut them loose rather than struggling with quick releases in 6mm gloves.