boycott Peter Hughes Diving

[diverbob]

I apologize for digging up such and old thread, but I was curious what some of the feelings are about this accident now that so much time and information has passed since this tragedy.

I just finished reading the book "No Safe Harbor", and there are some very chilling details of the events that lead up to this tragedy.

I was on the Peter Hughes vessel just a few months ago, and Peter himself was on the boat. I had such high respect for him after leaving that trip, and thought he was a first class guy. Mind you, I wasn't OW certified until 2003, well after this accident, so at the time, it didn't strike as close to home as it would now. However, after reading this book, I cant help but change my opinion of Peter Hughes, and I wish I would have read this book sooner.

 

[cdiver2]

That statement is pure BS. When it comes to insurance companies, if it's cheaper they settle. It has zero to do with "wrong" or "right." And it cuts both ways. Usually both sides fear a worse deal from court, so they decide not to take the chance - especially in cases like this where the issues are incredibly complex and uncertain.

The insurance company and PHD were willing to settle because they feared a huge settlement from the court - the plaintiffs were willing to settle because they feared a big fat zero award from the court.

Rick

Is this a fact or your opinion?

 

[cdiver2]

seems to be that people are focused on the liability-limiting effects of incorporating the parts of a business separately, and in separate places, and declaring that somehow "immoral" or "wrong".

Folks, its neither wrong or immoral.

The very act of incorporation serves to protect the owners from liability. That's one of the most important reasons why you incorporate in the first place!

Calling that "immoral" or anything of that kind is simply false; you don't boycott GE, Campbells, Chevy, Ford or your LDS for this practice, do you?

Yet all of them perform some varient of this practice. One LDS here that I am familiar with incorporates their dive boat separately from their shop, and I'm sure its for exactly the same reason PH did.

I do not fault any business-owner from protecting themselves and their enterprise from liability using any legal means, especially when we have juries in this country that will award people hundreds of thousands - or millions - for spilling hot coffee on their own 'nads. (And don't start with the "McDonalds KNEW their coffee was too hot" - so what? Its still stupid beyond words - and IMHO beyond justification for an award - to stick a cup of hot coffee between your legs while driving a car.)

The most-telling issue here, IMHO, is that the vessel was docked. The pax could have disembarked. They decided not to. That they were not ordered off the boat is simply immaterial to the question at hand - if you are fixing to stick yourself in harm's way I'm not obligated to stop you from doing it. Anyone who dives should understand this - the boat operator is not responsible if I, through my own action or inaction, find myself at 300', narked out of my mind, with no gas and a 2 hour deco obligation.

Why is it that when the same kind of stupidity happens on the surface, again through the pax individual choices, its suddenly someone else's fault?

I regret the loss of life. But I find it very, very difficult to defend a passenger's decision to stay on board combined with an attempt by that pax's estate to collect for their death, when they were in port and the pax could have disembarked.

So your in a country you are not familiar with, with a hurricane coming. The Capt say;s stay aboard you think you would be better ashore but where do you go once ashore?.

I think in those circumstances most people would take the Capt's advice, after all he is the paid professional.

 

[AbyssalPlains]

I am walking on thin ice here as I didn't follow the events as they happened (lived in Europe and wasn't involved with diving at the time). I tried my best to try to get an idea of what happened during this tragic event. But I still haven't been able to figure out why anyone would board a boat when a hurricane is approaching? What am I missing?

 

[Mako Mark]

I have been through about a dozen hurricanes. The worst and last was wilma, a cat five with a QNH of 880, worse than Katrina, I still have nightmares about it.

I respect Rick and all the other captains on the board here, but until you have seen 200 knot winds, you dont know what you are talking about.

The boat was in a hurricane hole. Tied up. The captain did everything right up until then. What happened with the parted stern line is an act of god. Was it a parted stern line or a loose bollard? Hard to tell.

Knowing what I know now about hurricanes I would have rather been in the jungle on top of a hill than in a boat in the harbour. I would have been fired from PHD if I had been a part of the crew, because I would have left and headed for high ground and a concrete building and you know what, I would have taken all the punters that wanted to come with me.

The biggest mistake I can see is that the crew did not send the pax to a concrete building on higher ground. This is a simple precaution, and the opportunity was there.

The pax had the choice and didnt take it.

this is called tag team negligence, everyone on board was responsible for their own safety, from the captain to the cook, to everyone on board.

the captain got them to a safe harbour.

what happened next was the decision of everyone on board.

I have gone through that. During hurricanes I have drunk a bottle of tequila or a dozen beers so I could sleep and wake up tomorrow when the winds have died down and the fallen trees need cleaning up.

 

[deepstops]

However, after reading this book, I cant help but change my opinion of Peter Hughes, and I wish I would have read this book sooner.

Why would you say this??
The Aggressor boat was tied up to the same dock behind PH's boat. Does that lower your opinion of Wayne Hasson (owner of the Aggressor company) as well??
I think what everyone has either missed before or wants to simply ignore is these boats aren't owned by PH or Aggressor, they are franchises.

 

[diverbob]

Why would you say this??

Peter Hughes flew down to the site the next morning, and walked right by the 3 guests that survived the accident, not a single word to them.

I also read not only in the book, but in other eye witness accounts that he ordered most of the boats communications to be shut off, or removed, thats why the Belize government had to send out a helicopter to tell them to head for cover.

And yes, I do have a feel ill feelings toward the aggressor as well. After Captain Martin did a poor job tying up the ship, he asked the Aggressor if he could borrow more rope from them, to help secure it, and was told no. Its not like he was asking them to leave the Blue Hole so his boat could get in, he was asking for help to make his boat more secure.

The book also pointed out that the Aggressor did give the passengers an opportunity to seek shelter off the boat, but that offer was not given to the Dancer. Being in a foreign country, not having any idea where I was at, I cant say for sure that I would have left the boat either. I wouldnt have a clue how far away the nearest village or town is. If the crew is telling me its safe, I am suppose to have faith and confidence they know what they are talking about. Turns out, this captain had never experienced a hurricane, and didnt listen to the crew members that had been through it before.

I realize that we cant believe everything we read, and this book may be biased. I have tried looking up other information from other sources, and thats one of the reasons I dug up this thread, as old as it was. However, when there is enough smoke somewhere, there has to be a fire somewhere.

 

[Allison Finch]

Gad, I was hoping that this could quit.
I have to remind people that the Wave Dancer was not owned by PH, simply offered his banner as long as they operated by his "standards". The boat was owned elsewhere. PH had no part of the decisions made by the captain. To tar and feather all the individually owned boats and captains who sail under the PH flag, is just not right.

I have sailed on PH boats and find them to be fantastic operations. They have pioneered many safety features that other LOB's worldwide have copied.

As for the book, I take everything I read as one person's opinion, not necessaily the truth.

 

[mike_s]

Though Hughes didn't own the boat, how he acted afterwards showed enough negativity that I wouldn't book with them. That's my choice.

The boat was in a hurricane hole. Tied up. The captain did everything right up until then. What happened with the parted stern line is an act of god. Was it a parted stern line or a loose bollard? Hard to tell.

The Dancer was tied up in front of the Agresser boat and was protruding out from the Dock. The front half ot the boat received the blunt of the storm that the Agressor boat didn't.

There were several other safety issues raised in the IMARBE report. Diverbob, you should read this next since you just finished the book.

This could have all been prevented and it wasn't.


As a note to all, one of the victums wives is a SB member and in the past has read these posts. Please be respectful.

 

[Zorrr2]

I apologize for digging up such and old thread, but I was curious what some of the feelings are about this accident now that so much time and information has passed since this tragedy.

I just finished reading the book "No Safe Harbor", and there are some very chilling details of the events that lead up to this tragedy.

I was on the Peter Hughes vessel just a few months ago, and Peter himself was on the boat. I had such high respect for him after leaving that trip, and thought he was a first class guy. Mind you, I wasn't OW certified until 2003, well after this accident, so at the time, it didn't strike as close to home as it would now. However, after reading this book, I cant help but change my opinion of Peter Hughes, and I wish I would have read this book sooner.

How many of you have read "NO SAFE HARBOR" . . . ??? This covers the story very well with a lot of back up info supplied as well. I wonder if it would enlighten some with additional insights as to what transpired. Mark