boring and stupid questions about diving in the UK

[Antmany2k]

hi, so a few people on here have recommend that i join a local club and dive here in the UK but i have some questions and reservations and haven't found any answers on the search bar or on youtube. some are based on conditions, some on training and some on equipment. id rather cover it in one post than spam the forum with multiple questions.

1. Are drysuits easy to use? Youtube shows me lots of videos on how to put one on or take it off but not so much on how to use it or how it works ( yes i know that it keeps you dry) i.e valves and hoses and stuff.

2. how important is fitting - if i take the plunge and do a few dives in the UK and enjoy it then i would look to get my own drysuit as renting will work out more expensive in the long run (equipment hire at the local lake is £50 for everything plus £10 entry. with my own equipment i can cut that down to £10 entry and £9 for air + tank. problem is i am a bit of a yo-yo-er in the weight department so i gain and lose the same 14-18 pounds regularly. so if i got a suit and i lost or gained weight would it make much difference? presumably the seals will be tight on the wrists and neck no matter what so as long as the suit fits it should work? - but if i lose weight and its baggy does that cause a problem with too much air in the suit?

C. The cold - Ok so the water is cold, that puts me off, a dry suit solves most of that problem but you are still partially exposed - hands, head, face. now you can get a thick hood and gloves but i guess these are not airtight as with a hood that would make equalizing a problem? does the gloves and hood make you warm or just make it a bit more bearable? and your face is partially exposed so again how bad is it? do you forget about it once you are down there or is it something you have to grin and bear?

4. do you need a lot of extra weight for a drysuit dive. i need 10kg with a thin wetsuit ( i am big but even when i did my OW and was 5 stone lighter i was stupidly buoyant, always have been (did a try dive as a scrawny 10 year old and they had to load me with led to keep me down) i am worried that if i do use a drysuit i am going to need tons of weight to keep me down and that gets exhausting lugging it around before you get in the water and getting out of it if you have to board a boat. 10kg i can carry with ease (i am fairly fit) but if i have to double it its going to be an issue either to carry or for me to buy the poor captain a new ladder for his boat after it breaks off and becomes a new dive attraction

5. Trim pockets - I am looking to buy a Cressi Aquaride (anyone used it or have any thoughts on it?) and it has trim pockets at the back are they worth using? my trim is pretty good and i stay horizontal with ease but i currently need 10kg with 5mm long wetsuit and go for 4kg on each integrated weight pocket and 1kg in each of my bcd side pockets. would it make a massive difference to move the 2 kg to the trim pockets to free up my main pockets?

6. Aqualung core regs - i was recommended to get these and it says they are ok for cold water, does anyone have them or used them in cold water? any problems with free flowing?

7. scapa flow - So like most people on here in the UK i want to dive Scapa flow now as you may have guessed from the questions above i am really apprehensive about diving in the UK. but if i do and i do a deep dive qualification is it possible to do scapa flow on air? the battleships are around 42m so according to the dive tables i have a maximum no deco of 10 minutes at that depth. My Zoop being conservative probably won't give me that but a battleship is huge!! you can't get around it in 10 minutes or probably even 40 minutes i imagine but what do you do? do you start of at 40m and then ascend every few minutes as you go around to keep in no deco or do you need to learn how to use nitrox to get the full benefit?

 

[stuartv]

1) - they are not hard, but you should take the class to learn how to do it properly, including some drysuit specific skills.

2) fit is pretty important, but how important depends on what kind of suit you get. For example, a compressed neoprene suit is less forgiving of a poor fit and a tri-laminate (aka shell, aka bag) suit is more forgiving. With weight fluctuations as you described, I would definitely lean towards a tri-lam shell suit. And make sure the fit will accommodate you at your heaviest WITH warm undergarments on.

Being baggy has no impact on me. I have a Bare XCS2, which is crushed neoprene and fairly form fitting. I also have a Waterproof D9X which is a tri-lam shell suit and fairly baggy. I find that I actually have less air moving around in the baggy suit. The reason is because once I get in, the water pressure squeezes the suit down onto my body. It's like being shrink-wrapped. If I didn't use the suit inflator to add air, I would have virtually no air moving around inside the suit. But, that would get painful, so I put in just enough air to eliminate the squeeze and let my undergarments loft up just a bit. That little bit of air does not cause problems. It just takes a few (very few) dives to get used to it (which is the same for the crushed neoprene suit as well).

C (3?)) You can get dry gloves, which will let you wear warm, for example, wool glove liners, to keep your hands warm and dry. Dry gloves, a good hood, and suitable undergarments can make even the coldest water quite comfortable. There is a bit of bite on the exposed parts of your face when you first get in, but that goes away almost immediately and then you don't notice it any more. I regularly dive in my local quarry that is 3 - 4C on the bottom all year round. I get chilly by the end of a dive, but if it really bothered me, I would simply wear a bit more insulation under my drysuit. And no, wearing a hood shouldn't make equalizing your ears any more difficult. If the hood fits and seals REALLY well, you might need to hook a finger under the edge of it, pull it open just a bit, and let in some water at the start of the dive, but after that it should be fine.

4) How much weight you need really depends on the suit and on how thick your undergarments are. I use about the same as I do in a 7mm wetsuit.

5) Your trim will change with a drysuit. Many people find that the air in their boots causes them to have floaty feet compared to using the same fins and gear in a wetsuit. Thus, many people end up getting different fins for use in a drysuit - fins that are more negatively buoyant, like ScubaPro Jet fins or Hollis F1 fins.

That said, I would seriously suggest to do a little research on back plates and wings (aka BP/W) before buying the Cressi BCD. With a stainless steel back plate, you will be able to use less actual lead because a SS BP will weigh around 2.5 kg by itself. And that weight will be distributed all around your back, as close as possible to your center of gravity. With a BP/W, you can put weight pockets on the waist belt or tank bands to support carrying any additional lead that you need and to let you position it wherever you need to, for optimum trim.

6) I have no experience with AL regs.

7) Scapa - I would highly recommend to get your Nitrox certification before going to Scapa. Using nitrox will let you have longer bottom times. Almost all those wrecks are within recreational limits (i.e. 40m or less), but they are deep enough that nitrox will definitely make a difference. Getting your nitrox cert should be reasonably cheap, requires no actual dives (with most certifying agencies), and can normally be completed with one 2 - 3 hour classroom session.

 

[BoltSnap]

6) Core regulator: Make sure that your regulator will stand for your frequent diving and use and for the colder water diving in the UK.

 

[Patoux01]

If I'm not mistaken, on the Core, you need the supreme version for cold water.

Most people I know that go to Scapa have experience in deco diving, as is kind of the norm with BSAC.


18 pounds, depending on the repartition, starts to get on the high side of the variation my suit could handle, as a matter of fact, that's why it's too small now, cut it to measure when I was 62kg, got to ~72kg and the fit was dead. If you get it when you're somewhere in the middle of that variation, you'll be fine. Fit is pretty important, a lot more than a mask if you want my opinion.

Cold is not really an issue on the face... Just make sure to put your face in the water before putting your mask on, makes it a bit nicer to already have a cold face, should you need to remove your mask. If you don't, you might be good for a headache (at least that happened to me the first time)


5) Get a BPW, a 6mm steel plate will help a lot with the amount of weight you're carrying...

 

[Antmany2k]

thanks for the replies,

it is the aqualung core i am looking at - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Aqualung-S...&qid=1489424074&sr=8-1&keywords=aqualung+core

i don't really know much about wings and plates other than the "they make you fall face first" thing is a myth that seems to infuriate a lot of people on this forum. i am trying to get kit i can use at home and abroad rather than shell out for 2 sets of stuff. my current trick to avoid paying the £70 scuba equipment fee with easyjet or the £4 per kilo excess suitcase charge is to put my dive stuff in my suitcase and then cram my clothes into my backpack as hand luggage. you said a BPW would be about 2.5kg would that be a major difference to the weight of a bcd in my suitcase? also how does a wing work? where would i attach my torch and

so if i get a dry suit in my mid to lower weight flux i should be ok to have a bit of play without looking like an underwater hot air balloon?

also the trim pockets on a bcd question was a question for wetsuit, drysuit and skin diving not just dry suit

and with Nitrox id have to get a new dive watch or hire an unfamiliar one with nitrox capabilities as my Zoop doesn't allow for Nitrox. reality is that when i did my open water i wanted to eventually, maybe, possibly do my AOW to go to 30m then i did my AOW and have enjoyed access to more dive sites because of that and there are wrecks that i want to do that have led me to look into my deep diver qualification. point is Nitrox is something i never considered or thought i would want to do. if i had i would have got a different computer. seems that the deeper i get pulled into the diving world and the more i enjoy it the more expensive its getting which was fine but i got a mortgage recently so i am having to be savvy in my equipment and my destinations. also part of the reason i am looking into diving here, to save money

 

[Patoux01]

Zoops have handled nitrox for at least the past 4 years. Might be some antique version not doing it, but I doubt it. Have a read at the manual

 

[Marie13]

AL Core is not good for cold water. I've just brought a dive buddy over to the dark side (aka colder water) and he's changed out his AL Core for a AL Legend LX Supreme for cold water.

 

[rivers]

hi, so a few people on here have recommend that i join a local club and dive here in the UK but i have some questions and reservations and haven't found any answers on the search bar or on youtube. some are based on conditions, some on training and some on equipment. id rather cover it in one post than spam the forum with multiple questions.

1. Are drysuits easy to use? Youtube shows me lots of videos on how to put one on or take it off but not so much on how to use it or how it works ( yes i know that it keeps you dry) i.e valves and hoses and stuff.
Once you get used to a drysuit, they aren't difficult to use. They take practice and a bit of work to get used to, and you may have a few-several frustrating dives. Start shallow and learn to control the suit before you move to deeper water.

2. how important is fitting - if i take the plunge and do a few dives in the UK and enjoy it then i would look to get my own drysuit as renting will work out more expensive in the long run (equipment hire at the local lake is £50 for everything plus £10 entry. with my own equipment i can cut that down to £10 entry and £9 for air + tank. problem is i am a bit of a yo-yo-er in the weight department so i gain and lose the same 14-18 pounds regularly. so if i got a suit and i lost or gained weight would it make much difference? presumably the seals will be tight on the wrists and neck no matter what so as long as the suit fits it should work? - but if i lose weight and its baggy does that cause a problem with too much air in the suit?
A drysuit should fit well. An ill fitting suit will not make it easy. Too baggy and you will trap air in various places, too tight and you won't be able to insulate properly.
Is your local lake Wraysbury by chance?

C. The cold - Ok so the water is cold, that puts me off, a dry suit solves most of that problem but you are still partially exposed - hands, head, face. now you can get a thick hood and gloves but i guess these are not airtight as with a hood that would make equalizing a problem? does the gloves and hood make you warm or just make it a bit more bearable? and your face is partially exposed so again how bad is it? do you forget about it once you are down there or is it something you have to grin and bear?
Depends on the time of year. If it's above 15-16*, I'll go sans hood and gloves for recreational dives. This time of year, it's dry gloves for me. I don't have any issue equalising and my hood is 10mm.

4. do you need a lot of extra weight for a drysuit dive. i need 10kg with a thin wetsuit ( i am big but even when i did my OW and was 5 stone lighter i was stupidly buoyant, always have been (did a try dive as a scrawny 10 year old and they had to load me with led to keep me down) i am worried that if i do use a drysuit i am going to need tons of weight to keep me down and that gets exhausting lugging it around before you get in the water and getting out of it if you have to board a boat. 10kg i can carry with ease (i am fairly fit) but if i have to double it its going to be an issue either to carry or for me to buy the poor captain a new ladder for his boat after it breaks off and becomes a new dive attraction
Not necessarily and we have something magical on boats called the diver lift. No ladders for us! Also, if they can hold a diver in a rebreather with several stages and a scooter, even 20kg (which I highly doubt you will need!) on a weightbelt won't be a problem.
We also have steel tanks, which are negative and not ali, which are positive.

5. Trim pockets - I am looking to buy a Cressi Aquaride (anyone used it or have any thoughts on it?) and it has trim pockets at the back are they worth using? my trim is pretty good and i stay horizontal with ease but i currently need 10kg with 5mm long wetsuit and go for 4kg on each integrated weight pocket and 1kg in each of my bcd side pockets. would it make a massive difference to move the 2 kg to the trim pockets to free up my main pockets?
Look into a backplate and wing (single tank wing) with a steel backplate. It will help get some of the weight off your weight belt. It will also spread weight over the entirety of your back. You can also thread a one or 2 kg lead block straight onto each of the cam bands if you need it.



6. Aqualung core regs - i was recommended to get these and it says they are ok for cold water, does anyone have them or used them in cold water? any problems with free flowing?
Apeks atx 40 (x2) second stages and a ds-4 first stage, plus an SPG. That's all you will need. UK company, easy to find a shop to service them (or if you are mechanically inclined, buy parts off of ebay and service yourself). Depending on what you get for an SPG, you're looking at £280-£330 for a set.

7. scapa flow - So like most people on here in the UK i want to dive Scapa flow now as you may have guessed from the questions above i am really apprehensive about diving in the UK. but if i do and i do a deep dive qualification is it possible to do scapa flow on air? the battleships are around 42m so according to the dive tables i have a maximum no deco of 10 minutes at that depth. My Zoop being conservative probably won't give me that but a battleship is huge!! you can't get around it in 10 minutes or probably even 40 minutes i imagine but what do you do? do you start of at 40m and then ascend every few minutes as you go around to keep in no deco or do you need to learn how to use nitrox to get the full benefit?
Get more experience in the UK first before you head to Scapa. It's cold and they are fairly deep recreational dives. Most UK divers I know end up learning to conduct decompression dives, whether that is through BSAC or one of the many technical agencies (or a bit of both). Deco is a part of UK diving for many divers, but do not let other divers pressure you into doing mandatory deco before you are A) ready and B) receive some sort of training. But yes on getting nitrox certified.

 

[rivers]

thanks for the replies,



i don't really know much about wings and plates other than the "they make you fall face first" thing is a myth that seems to infuriate a lot of people on this forum. i am trying to get kit i can use at home and abroad rather than shell out for 2 sets of stuff. my current trick to avoid paying the £70 scuba equipment fee with easyjet or the £4 per kilo excess suitcase charge is to put my dive stuff in my suitcase and then cram my clothes into my backpack as hand luggage. you said a BPW would be about 2.5kg would that be a major difference to the weight of a bcd in my suitcase? also how does a wing work? where would i attach my torch and
It works just like a bcd, same buttons, same elephant hose, etc. They are easy to travel with. I have travelled to Australia with both my single tank wing and my twinset wing (as well as the rest of my dive kit). I was no where near my weight limits. You can attach your torch like this on the harness strap:

so if i get a dry suit in my mid to lower weight flux i should be ok to have a bit of play without looking like an underwater hot air balloon?



and with Nitrox id have to get a new dive watch or hire an unfamiliar one with nitrox capabilities as my Zoop doesn't allow for Nitrox. reality is that when i did my open water i wanted to eventually, maybe, possibly do my AOW to go to 30m then i did my AOW and have enjoyed access to more dive sites because of that and there are wrecks that i want to do that have led me to look into my deep diver qualification. point is Nitrox is something i never considered or thought i would want to do. if i had i would have got a different computer. seems that the deeper i get pulled into the diving world and the more i enjoy it the more expensive its getting which was fine but i got a mortgage recently so i am having to be savvy in my equipment and my destinations. also part of the reason i am looking into diving here, to save money
Zoop does nitrox. And instead of doing the deep diver course, consider BSAC sports diver, which will set you up with everything you need to know about UK diving (drysuit, DSMB use, nitrox, intro to decompression, UK tidal system, among many other things) and give you a 35m ticket. I say this as a PADI DM (and someone who holds certs from various agencies). BSAC sports diver is the best course for UK recreational diving, and will cover 95% of what most divers want to do. Find a good club (I hear Eastbourne is quite good).

 

[Patoux01]

AL Core is not good for cold water. I've just brought a dive buddy over to the dark side (aka colder water) and he's changed out his AL Core for a AL Legend LX Supreme for cold water.

The Core Supreme has no problem with cold water, it is a sealed membrane reg.

On the Legend, there's absolutely no need to go for Supreme however.