boring and stupid questions about diving in the UK

[Marie13]

Ah, buddy just had the plain ol' Core.

 

[offfi]

If you want an AL reg, why not buy the Titan LX Supreme instead? It is basically the same reg, just the older model and they go for almost half the price (€250-300 new on eBay)!
In the higher price range I would rather take an Apeks. Especially if I was from the UK like you.

 

[Storker]

a compressed neoprene suit is less forgiving of a poor fit and a tri-laminate (aka shell, aka bag) suit is more forgiving.

Please elaborate. My experiences don't align with what I believe that you're saying.

I don't have any experience with crushed neoprene, but I have used both trilam and compressed neoprene DSs. IME, compressed neoprene is a lot easier to dive, since you need less undergarments. A trilam or crushed neoprene suit has to accommodate a proper undersuit which again is less forgiving WRT air travel, while a compressed or normal neoprene DS can be dived with only light, topside-type undergarments that trap less air and are much more forgiving of poor fit and poor trim.

 

[BoltSnap]

I don't have any experience with crushed neoprene, but I have used both trilam and compressed neoprene DSs. IME, compressed neoprene is a lot easier to dive, since you need less undergarments. A trilam or crushed neoprene suit has to accommodate a proper undersuit which again is less forgiving WRT air travel, while a compressed or normal neoprene DS can be dived with only light, topside-type undergarments that trap less air and are much more forgiving of poor fit and poor trim.

Do you find one type, neoprene/trilam, is better than the other in surface swimming at all? I am considering getting a new one but not sure which one will be better since I do a lot of surface swimming to get from shore to the reef where I'll be diving, 300 - 500 meter surface swim.

 

[dmaziuk]

i am trying to get kit i can use at home and abroad rather than shell out for 2 sets of stuff. my current trick to avoid paying the £70 scuba equipment fee with easyjet or the £4 per kilo excess suitcase charge is to put my dive stuff in my suitcase and then cram my clothes into my backpack as hand luggage. you said a BPW would be about 2.5kg would that be a major difference to the weight of a bcd in my suitcase? also how does a wing work? where would i attach my torch...

You can get an Alu plate for travel, it should cost you less than 70 quid. Although most people don't seem to have a problem carrying a steel one in their cabin luggage.

The wing is the same aircell with the same inflator and buttons and all, but it's located around the tank on your back. Which is why if you inflate it completely, it will indeed turn you backside-up. Unless you balance on top like on a car inner tube.

I've a pocket on my belt where I put the (backup) torch, knife, etc. You can clip stuff to d-rings, glue thigh pockets to your suit etc.

 

[stuartv]

Please elaborate. My experiences don't align with what I believe that you're saying.

I don't have any experience with crushed neoprene, but I have used both trilam and compressed neoprene DSs. IME, compressed neoprene is a lot easier to dive, since you need less undergarments. A trilam or crushed neoprene suit has to accommodate a proper undersuit which again is less forgiving WRT air travel, while a compressed or normal neoprene DS can be dived with only light, topside-type undergarments that trap less air and are much more forgiving of poor fit and poor trim.

My Bare suit is an XCS2 Tech. I believe they call it compressed neoprene, but as far as I can tell it is functionally equivalent to crushed neoprene. So, when I say "crushed", I am talking about what I have experience with, which is the XCS2 Tech. Just an FYI. So anyway....

With my Bare, if I wear light undergarments, I can reach my valves. If I wear my Fourth Element Arctic undergarments, I can't quite reach my valves. I say that just to give you an idea of how the suit fits me. My Bare suit is not baggy on me, at all.

My Waterproof suit is a D9X. I call it a tri-lam as that seems to be the generically-used term for any kind of bag suit. But, technically, WP calls it a breathable quad-lam. It fits me much more loosely than my XCS2. You could call it baggy. When I put on my Fourth Element Arctic undergarments, I don't feel any more restricted in my movements that if I'm not wearing the drysuit. The nature of the D9X is such that it has a telescoping torso. That makes it a lot easier to get it over my head than my XCS2 is. It also means that the extra thickness of undergarments on top of my shoulders does not make the suit torso feel any "shorter" (unlike a suit with a fixed length torso).

So, my Bare suit is sized to let me wear some undergarments. If I do, that takes up some of the extra space inside the suit. But, when I get in and the water pressure squeezes the suit down onto my body, some air stays in the suit (rather than being squeezed out). The compressed neoprene doesn't squeeze down like a shell suit to let all the air out. The neoprene material is thicker and stiffer and simply doesn't squish down as tight and compact as the shell suit material does. If I have no undergarments on, the the XCS2 feels like it retains even more air in the suit.

My WP suit shell material is fairly thin and very flexible. When I get in the water with it on, no matter what undies I have on, it feels like the water pressure squeezes ALL the air out of the suit.

I got my Bare suit around May of 2015. I got my WP suit around July or August of 2016. I was in the pool on Sunday using my Bare suit for the first time since I got the WP suit. I was only wearing a t-shirt, board shorts and some thick socks under the Bare. It felt like no matter what I did, I could never get ALL the air out my suit. When I would get horizontal, I could always feel a small pool of air, like a bubble in a level, in between my back and my BP/W. When I get in the pool with my WP suit, it feels like ALL the air is squeezed out. With either suit, I only put enough air back into the suit to take off enough squeeze to be comfortable.

My undergarments are pretty dense. They are not fluffy or lofty like some other suits. Even with my undies on when I'm in the quarry, I have never felt like I had air running around in my suit throwing me off. Or, what I really should say is that that feeling has been extremely minimal with the WP suit. And, from the first time I tried it, it felt like there was less air moving around than when I wear the same undies under the Bare suit.

So, I feel like the compressed neoprene is less forgiving of good fit because if it fits well with good undergarments on, then it will feel loose and like it's holding more air when you don't wear those good undergarments. The shell suit feels like it fits basically the same and holds the same amount of air whether I'm using thick undies or no undies. Thus why I feel like it's more forgiving on fit.

I have only really compared my two suits with the same undies on under each. You might say "well, that's not a fair comparison because the Bare would be warmer, so you would have to add undies with the WP to be equally warm and, when you do add those extra undies, then you will have more air in the WP suit."

And all I can say in response is that you would be right if you said that. But, since I feel like I have less trouble managing the air in my WP when I AM wearing my cold water undies than I do when I'm wearing the Bare with no undies, I am satisfied with my conclusion.


One final note: I did find that my WP suit also prevented me from reaching my valves when I wear my Fourth Element Arctic undergarments. After some experimentation at home, I finally realized that the problem for me was that the sleeves on my suit are too short for me. With no undies on, the back of the wrist seal could pull partway up my arm and not restrict my movement. With a thick top on, the thickness of the shirt sleeve around my wrist prevented the back of the wrist seal from pulling so far up my arm. So, I'm having the sleeves made longer while DRiS is installing permanent dry glove rings. I think that will fix my problem and I'll be able to reach my valves with any undergarments I choose to wear. But, I won't say I'm 100% confident on all this until I have my WP suit back and verify that I can reach my valves no matter what undies I'm wearing.

 

[stuartv]

Do you find one type, neoprene/trilam, is better than the other in surface swimming at all? I am considering getting a new one but not sure which one will be better since I do a lot of surface swimming to get from shore to the reef where I'll be diving, 300 - 500 meter surface swim.

I feel like my Bare (compressed neoprene) is more streamlined than my shell suit, so I think it's a little easier for any kind of swimming. But, if the fit is such that you have to actually make the suit stretch when you take swimming strokes, that would probably get pretty tiring after not very long.

 

[BoltSnap]

I feel like my Bare (compressed neoprene) is more streamlined than my shell suit, so I think it's a little easier for any kind of swimming. But, if the fit is such that you have to actually make the suit stretch when you take swimming strokes, that would probably get pretty tiring after not very long.

They will be "tailored" fit.

 

[Centrals]

4. BP/W with SS plate.
6. Apeks.
7. Those battleships are in relatively deep water so AIR is the norm. Nitrox is extremely useful for the rest of the fleet. Highly recommended the place.
Scapa Scuba is the only dive operator(recreational) on the island based in Stromness. They will provide guided dive and equipment(dry suit included). And there are several dive boats around if you are into tec dive but you need to contact the skipper for the booking. Most tec divers don't like to dive with complete stranger especially on wreck penetration.


It is a long long way to travel from Brighton to Orkney if you don't fly.

 

[Antmany2k]

@rivers thanks for the advice, Wrasbury is my local lake - i have heard good and bad things about it but it can't hurt to try it. i will look into the wing and backplate thing before i make a decision, may work out better for me. my local dive place use a rib apparently so i doubt that would have a lift. but if i could find a club that does have a boat with a lift that would definitely make things easier for me. and BSAC sports diver sounds like a great course to take for what i am looking to do. as for Scapa its something to build too, i wouldn't feel confident to do it yet.
@Centrals it is a very long drive so i would take a couple of days of work either side of a weekend and fly up