Bonne Terre Mine, MO

[HammerNoMore]

I also think the prices are high -- but just try to book a reservation for 4 divers on short notice; they are booked up solid at those prices, so why should they charge less.

Yep, you are quite correct. But maybe some "Summer discounts" for the locals might get them more respect. After all they are far less busy during the Summer.

No primary light on the first dive, but you can carry a back-up light if you request.

I don't think you even have to request. The no primary rule is because the front and rear dive guide use the primaries to communicate. How many dives do you know of where they are so safety minded they have a guide in the front and back? They don't balk about secondaries, I took one and didn't even get a second look.

No knife--there has never been any fishing line in there, so a knife is not needed as a safety device. A rescue-trained diver may point out that it could be handy in a rescue and gear-removal scenario and quietly be told that yes, he may carry his knife. Their primary concern is that a diver will use a knife to attempt to collect souvenirs or leave graffiti -- and we know that can happen!

Yep. This is not a reef where hundreds of bad divers can collect and still more grows. Every artifact lost there is gone, period. I did not get questioned about my Z-Knife, nor would anyone be bothered about shears.

The mine is an excellent dive experience if you come prepared to dive (in cold water) and check your attitude at the door. You will be told when and how to dive and be expected to follow-the-leader. And you will be treated to a historical site in perfect visibility with excellent lighting provided.

Yes, as I have always said, everyone should do it at least one time...it's a unique experience. After that decide if the price and rules are within your personal parameters for a repeat trip. For me, I intend to go back after I get my drysuit, but not regulary as the cost is prohibative. As for safety, I've never seen a safer operation.

*This post may look like a rebuttal to James' abridged quote, but he and I are really making the same points.

I didn't take it as a rebuttal. It's been my experience that you and I agree a lot in principal but differ a little in execution ... We should dive together soon.

James

 

[bigblue63304]

You can check all the facts with the bonn terre police department, the missouri state police department, and the st.louis post dispatch. You can probably find additional information on the local news channel websites such as KSDK 5. KMOX 4. KTVI 2. KPLR 11. the best bet would be to check the archived material, and don't for get to check the public records of the area Including public libraries and at the city halls. I would much rather that no one takes my word on anything and they do check these sources out for themselves. Do the leg work my man, you'll learn more than you want.

 

[HammerNoMore]

You can check all the facts with the bonn terre police department, the missouri state police department, and the st.louis post dispatch. You can probably find additional information on the local news channel websites such as KSDK 5. KMOX 4. KTVI 2. KPLR 11. the best bet would be to check the archived material, and don't for get to check the public records of the area Including public libraries and at the city halls. I would much rather that no one takes my word on anything and they do check these sources out for themselves. Do the leg work my man, you'll learn more than you want.

And the broken record skips again...Why don't you provide us with some proof of your claims? Oh that's right you can't since you're just making stuff up. Is that your goal, see how many people you can trick into looking for info that doesn't exist? We're not that stupid. Oh, and you didn't answer my question...how long ago did they fire you?

 

[Randy43068]

what I think of the operation AND the dives.

I'm really looking forward to my first dives of the year! I'm getting antsy.. (is that a word?)

i would love to dive it once just to say that i have, but they have a bad rep when it comes to customer service, and as a "newbie" i may need some extra time and a little more direction than others. who knows maybe some day.

 

[crpntr133]

If you have questions ask one of the ladies, or person, that takes you down from surface to dock. For the most part the dive guys will give you a quick answer most likely because they are focused on getting you into the water safely.
The light issue..you can carry a small back up light, it is on the dry erase board in the room that you see the video in. Can't remember what size but it was rather small.

So Big blue, what happened to checking DAN? Figured out that there are no reports on Bonne Terre with DAN? I did the leg work on that one and there are no reports. See what I can find on the TV web pages.

 

[Hoosier]

James Goddard,

As I remember, you are the people who is coordinating “Midwestdive” forum and gathering (please let me know if I am wrong). But, your reply is kind of disappointing. As you read, many members are complaining about their service, price, or etc….. If this kind of complaints isn’t from one member, there must be some reasons and facts. If you are located in St. Louis area as a DM, you are probably more accessible to the truth than others. Why don’t you try some investigations for many Mid-West divers as the most active diver in Mid-West? I don’t think it is late to blame bigblue63304 after finding out who tells the truth. If then, your reply is more reasonable to many ordinary divers who are not on any LDS’s payroll. We will appreciate for your task. We are sure that you will be objective in this matter as a forum master. If it turns out to be false incrimination, bigblue63304 will lose any credibility about his words in this board.

And the broken record skips again...Why don't you provide us with some proof of your claims? Oh that's right you can't since you're just making stuff up. Is that your goal, see how many people you can trick into looking for info that doesn't exist? We're not that stupid. Oh, and you didn't answer my question...how long ago did they fire you?

 

[crpntr133]

It seems that there are no accident reports about the mine due to diving on any of the news web pages. I also did a internet search for:
" Bonne Terre Mine" + accident..nothing
"Bonne Terre Mine" + incident.. nothing
"West End Diving"..nothing

I have nothing better to do than sit in front of my computer and be a detective.

Hoosier, I think what James is defending against is the fact that Big Blue has nothing to back his mouth. The subject isn't the price,lights, etc. but rather the safety. I personally find it hard to believe that they have had as many accidents as Big Blue is implying and are still in business.

 

[theskull]

James Goddard,



As I remember, you are the people who is coordinating “Midwestdive” forum and gathering (please let me know if I am wrong). But, your reply is kind of disappointing. As you read, many members are complaining about their service, price, or etc….. If this kind of complaints isn’t from one member, there must be some reasons and facts. If you are located in St. Louis area as a DM, you are probably more accessible to the truth than others. Why don’t you try some investigations for many Mid-West divers as the most active divers in Mid-West? I don’t think it is late to blame bigblue63304 after finding out who tells the truth. If then, your reply is more reasonable to many ordinary divers who are not on any LDS’s payroll. We will appreciate for your task. We are sure that you will be objective in this matter as a forum master. If it turns out to be false incrimination, bigblue63304 will lose any credibility about his words in this board.

Those of us who have been diving locally for many years don't need to do additional research because we KNOW what goes on at the mine. James is challenging bigblue's claims of many deaths. There have been very few deaths in the past 15 years, and they have not been poor safety issues--a heart attack, a rebreather diver who toxed--not due to problems with the operation.

People will always complain about service, and some of those complaints will be valid, while most will be in reference to a preference that others would not care about.

The price is what it is, and you know that before you sign up to make the dives. Is the dive worth the price? Very subjective opinion here. Some say "no way" and others return to dive over and over again, many of them driving long distances to make the dives yet again.

Being on an LDS' payroll shouldn't color opinions of the dive site, unless one is on the West End Dive payroll since they own and operate the mine. All the other shops consider Bonne Terre to be competition and are not going to falsely pump up the operation to encourage folks to flock to the competition.

The majority of complaints that I hear are that OW divers are allowed to dive an overhead environment. Is this wise and safe? No less so than Ginnie Springs, many other Florida "OW" sites, Cozumel swim-thrus, etc. And again--you KNOW that it is overhead when you sign up to do the dives--if you are not comfortable with that, then don't pay your money--if you are, then follow the safety procedures of the operation and follow the guide to enjoy a great dive or 2 or 3.

theskull

 

[bigblue63304]

As I said before I have never worked for them, through them, or around them. So I could never had been terminated by them. It only takes a few minutes to go through the public records. There all available to the public, even for the ones that don't want to look at them. I believe if you call the state me office, they will even mail you requested material at no charge.

 

[HammerNoMore]

But, your reply is kind of disappointing.

I've stated publicly that I'm not necissarily a big fan of the mine. And I'm vocal about any issue I have with operations. However, attempting to do harm to a business by a) engaging in personal attacks (a TOS violation) and b) making up false claims in the nature of people dying, is the worst form of nonsense. bigblue63304 has an agenda he doesn't want to announce, what it is I don't know but this is personal for him. He's made false claims he can't back up and refuses to back down. If it were my shop I'd be going after him for liable.

As you read, many members are complaining about their service, price, or etc….. If this kind of complaints isn’t from one member, there must be some reasons and facts.

Myself included. I've been to the mine and IMHO they are overpriced and overstrict. But considering it's the only clear water around I'll be back there.

If you are located in St. Louis area as a DM, you are probably more accessible to the truth than others. Why don’t you try some investigations for many Mid-West divers as the most active diver in Mid-West? I don’t think it is late to blame bigblue63304 after finding out who tells the truth. If then, your reply is more reasonable to many ordinary divers who are not on any LDS’s payroll. We will appreciate for your task. We are sure that you will be objective in this matter as a forum master. If it turns out to be false incrimination, bigblue63304 will lose any credibility about his words in this board.

I don't need to. I do live close by and when there is an a death at a dive site you hear about it. I already know the claims are false and if they are not then Doug is a mastermind of coverups . Yes, as theskull said, there have been a couple of problems but they were not related to the safety of the operation. I believe there was a heart attack victim at Mermet a couple of years back, should we question their safety practices as well?

bigblue's claims of many deaths are true, in one aspect. There were many deaths in the mine before the local authorities closed other entrances and West End took over the operation. This was from people going in on their own undertrained and underprepaired for the dive. If bigblue is attempting to use these deaths to slander West End then he should be called out on it.

You ask me to do the impossible, prove a negative. You can't do that. However since bigblue started this crusade, he very much needs to prove his claims. The fact that he has refused to do so should tell you all you need to know. The fact is that this is the only thing he has posted about, he clearly joined ScubaBoard with the sole intent of slandering a local business and nothing more.

If I seem like I'm hounding bigblue, it's because I am. I've carefully avoided any acts of moderating on this one because I'm involved with it. I think what he is doing here is an injustice and as a user I will continue to call him out on it.

James