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Rick, are many of the cruise ships running steam turbines?
Bonaire's Future
- Thread starter phelana
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Smells like it.
I'll dig around & find out. Steam's much more efficient when you get big, and many of the new ones are bigger than supertankers!
Cruise ship schedules just don't support shutting down and restarting, even with big deisels... Steam plants take days to properly shut down and fire back up, so there has to be a compelling reason - like major maintenance - to do so.
Rick
-- edit --
Looks like only the old ones still have steam plants; the newer ships are all going to deisel-electric plants, even the super-monsters on the drawing boards. Still can't just "turn 'em on" and "turn 'em off" though. My best guess is that it'd take a visit of several days to make shutting down and restarting feasible.
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You could never yoyo a steam plant like that, the biggest diesels that I've been around are twin EMD 16-645-E5, they could go up and down reasonably, but were still a pain ... and that's no where near 10% of cruise ship size.
DennisS
Contributor
Even NOAA and EPA ships run their diesel generators in port, rather than shift to shorepower, if they are only going to be there a day or so.
The cruise ships will shutdown their propulsion plants but stay on generators when they are in port. On a sunday you can see the clouds of smoke when they start up to take the next weeks cruisers out. There is a standard for smoke coming out of the stacks, it's waived for x minutes on startup when they belch those black clouds.
There's some big diesels out there
http://people.bath.ac.uk/ccsshb/12cyl/
The cruise ships will shutdown their propulsion plants but stay on generators when they are in port. On a sunday you can see the clouds of smoke when they start up to take the next weeks cruisers out. There is a standard for smoke coming out of the stacks, it's waived for x minutes on startup when they belch those black clouds.
There's some big diesels out there
http://people.bath.ac.uk/ccsshb/12cyl/
As much as I hate to say it, but leave it to Rick (one of the few who knows W.T.F. he's talking about on this board) to tell it like it is. Cruise ships will send Bonaire into a downward spiral, and it will break my, as well as many of yours, heart.
My wife and I have been to the island 3 times in the last 17 months and we have absolutely fallen in love with it. Even at this point in time, it is vastly different from the rest of the Caribbean islands, but... for how much longer? For it to be transformed into another Nassau, St. Thomas, or Cozumel tortures my soul. We love the island, we love the people, and of course... we live for diving Bonaire. Our dream is to someday live there... well to live on the current Bonaire, not one infested with pod people and a suffering reef system.
For Bonaire it looks like the inevitable, sadly, will happen. For those of you who hope or expect the government to do the right thing for Bonaire or it's eco-system, you need to wake up. The people of government will only do what is best for themsleves. Yeah, there are exceptions but they are as rare as the Cubs in a World Series. Money and power will always win over what is right or what should be done.
Now, I am by no means a Reef Nazi or a Global Warming Zealot(which, by the way, is a religion with Al Gore as the High Priest), but I do believe in preserving what we have. And I hope that somehow, someway today's Bonaire can be preserved. Odds are the Cubs will win a World Series before that happens (sorry Cubs fans... no offense).
My wife and I have been to the island 3 times in the last 17 months and we have absolutely fallen in love with it. Even at this point in time, it is vastly different from the rest of the Caribbean islands, but... for how much longer? For it to be transformed into another Nassau, St. Thomas, or Cozumel tortures my soul. We love the island, we love the people, and of course... we live for diving Bonaire. Our dream is to someday live there... well to live on the current Bonaire, not one infested with pod people and a suffering reef system.
For Bonaire it looks like the inevitable, sadly, will happen. For those of you who hope or expect the government to do the right thing for Bonaire or it's eco-system, you need to wake up. The people of government will only do what is best for themsleves. Yeah, there are exceptions but they are as rare as the Cubs in a World Series. Money and power will always win over what is right or what should be done.
Now, I am by no means a Reef Nazi or a Global Warming Zealot(which, by the way, is a religion with Al Gore as the High Priest), but I do believe in preserving what we have. And I hope that somehow, someway today's Bonaire can be preserved. Odds are the Cubs will win a World Series before that happens (sorry Cubs fans... no offense).
scubadobadoo
Contributor
Headline: Cruise Ship Runs Into Reef Pulverizes Sea Life
It has happened many times before. Nobody has to even GET OFF the ship for the impact to be seen and felt. While some may benefit, the eco system will not.
It has happened many times before. Nobody has to even GET OFF the ship for the impact to be seen and felt. While some may benefit, the eco system will not.
Phacops
Registered
My $0.02 is that I have to agree with dyarab that cruise ship traffic can lead to a death spiral for diving tourism. Last time I was there one of those monsters docked and I saw the hordes of waddling passengers in Kralendijk when I went into town for lunch. It made me uneasy.
I've traveled to Cayman and was very happy that it was only a short trip. That island was grim; it was totally given to cruise tourism and all I can say of George Town is that it is entirely without any redeeming value. I was very happy to be leaving - I know the difference between laid-back and dead! Met a couple of Brits at Sunset House who were staying longer than we were and their attitude was "shoot us now, please". The reef damage was greater than I've seen in Hawaii and I'd certainly hate to see that happen to Bonaire.
I've traveled to Cayman and was very happy that it was only a short trip. That island was grim; it was totally given to cruise tourism and all I can say of George Town is that it is entirely without any redeeming value. I was very happy to be leaving - I know the difference between laid-back and dead! Met a couple of Brits at Sunset House who were staying longer than we were and their attitude was "shoot us now, please". The reef damage was greater than I've seen in Hawaii and I'd certainly hate to see that happen to Bonaire.
Tennessee Slim
Contributor
At least in the case of Bonaire, I dont think the power from shore solution is practical. Id hazard to guess that a mega-cruise ship at anchor produces (and consumes) close to as much electric power as the entire island of Bonaire. Dont forget they have nonstop air conditioning and no one has to suffer with cold showers aboard ship. And the full compliment of passengers and crew is about half the population of the island. So either Bonaire would have to endure frequent and prolonged brownouts or they would have to build power plants capable of producing twice the power the island itself requires. Then the locals would have to subsidize the unused capacity for the 80% of the time there was no ship at anchor. And can you imagine the size of the extension cord? 
Even if it were it wouldn't make any difference... Bonaire's power plant is deisel electric, same as the ship.
They're playing around with wind power, but it ain't on line yet (AFAIK) and even when it comes on line it won't satisfy the whole island's needs - they're hoping for a 40/60 split between wind and deisel - so any power in addition to what's needed on the island will mean firing up another deisel.
Rick
I was a voice in the wilderness who decried the entry of cruise ships here on Catalina. I was sure they would not contribute much to the local economy, and would just create more crowded (and less desirable) conditions in town, especially during our peak summer season.
What we found out is that the cruise ship passengers actually do eat meals in town, despite the fact they are free on the boat. They drink alcohol in the bars because it is cheaper here than on the boat. They do buy a few souvenirs. There has been a noticeable boost to the economy, especially off-season.
Was it worth the impacts? In my mind, no. The cruise ships I approached weren't interested in educational programs about the island and its natural history, topside or under water, unless they got a big percentage. Adding educational value to the passenger experience wasn't high on their list. Besides, offering such venues might take away time from the gambling tables and therefore revenue for the cruise line.
We didn't see an influx of chain stores so only the local Mom & Pop stores benefited economically... not a bad thing as it employed more locals, at least on cruise ship days. I must admit the arrival of the ship did herald an opportunity for fresh "people watching," and in the dead of winter here that can be interesting.
However we have now lost at least two of the cruise ships. I'm not sure why they are leaving, but I know the local stores are not happy. Perhaps it will make our island develop new and novel attractions to entice repeat customers (60% of our business).
I was interested in Oceana's campaign to reduce cruise ship pollution and other impacts. You might check with them (there is a representative who is a member of this board) to get information that they have assembled on cruise ship impacts.
What we found out is that the cruise ship passengers actually do eat meals in town, despite the fact they are free on the boat. They drink alcohol in the bars because it is cheaper here than on the boat. They do buy a few souvenirs. There has been a noticeable boost to the economy, especially off-season.
Was it worth the impacts? In my mind, no. The cruise ships I approached weren't interested in educational programs about the island and its natural history, topside or under water, unless they got a big percentage. Adding educational value to the passenger experience wasn't high on their list. Besides, offering such venues might take away time from the gambling tables and therefore revenue for the cruise line.
We didn't see an influx of chain stores so only the local Mom & Pop stores benefited economically... not a bad thing as it employed more locals, at least on cruise ship days. I must admit the arrival of the ship did herald an opportunity for fresh "people watching," and in the dead of winter here that can be interesting.
However we have now lost at least two of the cruise ships. I'm not sure why they are leaving, but I know the local stores are not happy. Perhaps it will make our island develop new and novel attractions to entice repeat customers (60% of our business).
I was interested in Oceana's campaign to reduce cruise ship pollution and other impacts. You might check with them (there is a representative who is a member of this board) to get information that they have assembled on cruise ship impacts.
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