Bonaire going down the drain??

[scubafanatic]

Get used to it my friend. Unless you wax euphoric about Divers' Paradise here on SB the Virtual Bonaire Chamber of Commerce pounces on you. Actually they are slipping - it took nine whole posts before you were called a "troll"

...agreed...as they say 'denial ain't just a river in Egypt! Been to Bonaire a couple of times for a week each time, and while I enjoyed the island, the fish life was very weak, even back then ( my last trip was several years ago ). Between the locals overfishing, the hurricane damage (most recently from Omar), sewage issues (resulting in a disease that pretty much wiped out Bonaire's eel population) the ongoing property theft against divers 'issue' that's a running joke in the rest of the dive world, I don't expect to ever return to Bonaire.

I will say Bonaire isn't the only place with a very pathetic level of fish life, most of the Carribbean is the same way, Bahamas and Roatan are also completely fished out, it's really spooky to see beautiful reefs so devoid of fish in so many places! I just find it insane that places like Bonaire make newly arriving divers do silly things like mandatory bouyancy control checks and pay marine park fees to supposedly 'protect' their reefs, yet at the same time allow massive cruise ship pier development and 'anything goes' local fishing.....complete hypocrisy !

The lionfish invasion will only accelerate the final collapse of what little presently remains of the fish life of Bonaire, then when the fish are gone, the algae will overcome the reef structure and the reef will die, what's left of the reef anyway, as global warming has already rendered essentially extinct corals such as staghorn corals in the Carribbean.

 

[Mike]

What we really need to see is more lionfish on the menus of the restaurants. I am told that it is very tasty. This could supplement the income of the lionfish hunters and do a good deed for the reef. With our appetites, we can make that fish scarce (at least in the easily accessible areas).

The sooner the dive community realizes that lion fish as a food fish is not any kind of solution to the problem the sooner we can focus on real solutions.

We need to realize that unless you can create a market for eating mini bite lion fish, the problem is fishermen are only going to harvest table worthy sized fish, ignoring all the rest while they devestate the juvenile reef fish as they eat themselves to table worthy size.

 

[vladimir]

Get used to it my friend. Unless you wax euphoric about Divers' Paradise here on SB the Virtual Bonaire Chamber of Commerce pounces on you. Actually they are slipping - it took nine whole posts before you were called a "troll"

To be fair, the OP's first and second post were just confused on the facts. He assumed that all fishing in the marine park was illegal, and was slow to accept correction of that misconception.

Having been to Bonaire many times over the last 20 years I noticed that the number of poachers fishing in the marine park is steadily increasing every year and the so-called STINAPA "rangers" happily turn a blind eye on this illegal fishing activity while eagerly controlling divers.

Dear DiverVince,
poaching stands for illegal hunting, spearfishing or fishing. Fishing, even with a handline in a marine park is an illegal activity.

The question of whether Bonaire's policy of marine resource management is wise is only broached here, in his third post:

I completely disagree with you. Allowing fishing in a protected marine park is like using lions to guard sheep.
This stupid STINAPA statement clearly shows how sick these people must be. It is long overdue to replace the STINAPA management with people having some common sense left. Unless of course Bonaire's government is keen to get rid of vacationing divers
And by the way, our local fishermen have been fishing in the North Sea for generations, and surprise, surprise, the fish are gone..how come?:shocked2:

yet he still seems to think that STINAPA has fiat power over Bonaire's population. I would not argue that Bonaire is doing an exemplary job of marine management, but I am not aware of any country doing a better job, either, and that includes many with an equally important stake.

 

[DiverVince]

The sooner the dive community realizes that lion fish as a food fish is not any kind of solution to the problem the sooner we can focus on real solutions.

We need to realize that unless you can create a market for eating mini bite lion fish, the problem is fishermen are only going to harvest table worthy sized fish, ignoring all the rest while they devestate the juvenile reef fish as they eat themselves to table worthy size.

Your logic ignores the fact that throughout history mankind has eradicated species of food sources which are deemed to "taste good". The fact that the Lionfish is tasty and great for consumption will go a long way in diminishing their numbers. Lionfish derbies seem to me to be a great way of reducing their population.

As far as creating a market for mini bite lion fish, not necessary. I suspect any diver using the ELF will in fact use it to decimate the tiny marauder. You don't have to eat every one of them. More like the only good lionfish is a dead lionfish.

Your other argument about fisherman only harvesting table worthy sized fish is also flawed. To my knowledge the lionfish are eradicated by divers, not fishermen. From what I've read the lionfish will only consume prey which is alive and swimming. Most fishing techniques to not easily lend themselves to catch lionfish.

You also indicate we can "focus on real solutions". I'm listening..

 

[Mike]

Your logic ignores the fact that throughout history mankind has eradicated species of food sources which are deemed to "taste good". The fact that the Lionfish is tasty and great for consumption will go a long way in diminishing their numbers. Lionfish derbies seem to me to be a great way of reducing their population.

As far as creating a market for mini bite lion fish, not necessary. I suspect any diver using the ELF will in fact use it to decimate the tiny marauder. You don't have to eat every one of them. More like the only good lionfish is a dead lionfish.

Your other argument about fisherman only harvesting table worthy sized fish is also flawed. To my knowledge the lionfish are eradicated by divers, not fishermen. From what I've read the lionfish will only consume prey which is alive and swimming. Most fishing techniques to not easily lend themselves to catch lionfish.

You also indicate we can "focus on real solutions". I'm listening..

Well you mixed up about 3 different things there to make your point.

#1 you started off about man decimating a species. This refers to commercial fishing, then you slipped into something about how divers would take care of the little ones???? Are we talking about fishing or DMs patrolling the reef? DM aren't going to decimate a species they can't even get too that lives below recreational limits. For every 1 you take out of recreational limits there are what? 10,000 more living deeper? If your derbies were such a good method of devastating the species then you'd only need to hold one, since they'd be gone. The truth is all you're doing is culling them from a area for a short time, just like mowing, maintaining, watering, fertilizing and weeding a 100 sq foot lawn in the middle of a million square mile untamed piece of land.

Divers aren't going to devastate a species that they can only reach less then 1% of the species so we are back to fishing and fisherman supporting the new lion fish table fish market so...

Man can devastate a fish species that 'schools' or can be visually hunted on the surface or specifically baited or trapped.

So far lion fish don't fall into any of those.

How would you harvest lion fish in a way that would devastate their species?

Please state some actual facts instead of the 3 different mixed statements you made that aren't related.

As a food fish how would you harvest lion fish in a manner that would devastate their species?

How are you going to net them? Such as Tuna?

How are you going to long line them? Such as sharks?

How are you going to hunt them on the surface? Such as whales?

How are you going to trap them? Such as lobster or crab?

Please explain the fishing technique fisherman would use and how you would harvest and decimate lion fish by creating a commercial fishing market for lion fish when the only way to harvest them is by hand?

Before you do let's lay the ground work and reiterate that - harvesting by hand only gives you access to far less then 1% of the population, because lion fish don't all live in shallow water.

If you're honest and actually think about the fallacy of lion fish as a table fish you'll quickly come to the realization it's a waste of time, there is no logic to support how you effect their population by hand harvesting them.

But go ahead and tell me how you would hand harvest lion fish in a way that would devastate their population.

 

[jepuskar]

If a local is fishing their waters to feed their family I don't think it's my place to say something. The only reason to even speak up would be out of selfishiness...as in...ohh no, don't fish on the reef....I need to be able to visit again to see the pretty fishes.

4 years ago I was coming up from a dive at Bachelors Beach and there stood a local husband and wife with a hand fishing line in the water. They caught a Flounder and put it in a bucket...obviously for their dinner that night. I was a little put off by the sight, but as a visitor to their island, how out of line would it have been for me to go up to them and remind them of the park rules?

I think locals need to deal with their issues, it's their economy..for me it's just a nice vacation.

J

 

[TheWizard]

Flounder is YUMMY if cooked right. Use moist heat and don't over-cook. I'm not immediately sure what sauce goes best with it, but it's not hard to google that...

 

[Mike]

You also indicate we can "focus on real solutions". I'm listening..

The solutions start in Indonesia. A solution begins only by funding research to understand how and why the lionfish lives in natural harmony in it's eco system there. That's step number one in the journey, that's where some answers are to be found.

Step number two is an international symposium consisting of all nations effected by the Caribbean lionfish infestation. A gathering with the proper representatives from all of these nations getting together to exchange information, hold seminars and educate each other on what they have learned and what they have put in place. For more than 10 years every nation in the Caribbean has re-invented the wheel one at a time in regard to dealing with them, as the lionfish have moved slowly south to their nations one at a time. The isolationism in regard to information has added to the problem. Every nation has seemed to have started from ground zero as if nobody else has experienced this lion fish invasion before them.

You need look only at STINAPA and how ass backwards they have been in their handling of this problem and others to understand how this isolation has not been effective.

 

[Jersey]

Jersey, just to set the record straight: we do not have to pay for the ELF. It is provided to us by STINAPA free of charge. The course/workshop that we took before we got our ELF and contract was also free of charge. Replacing broken parts...also free of charge.

I think it is easy to criticize STINAPA but please realize that they were BY FAR the most pro-active in the whole region. Not a single island has been so active and as ready as we could be than Bonaire. On Curacao apparently they are still waiting for legislation to allow the use of ELF-like spears!

Eradication is not going to happen. Impossible. But we are working hard (and keep increasing our efforts) to at least try and keep the numbers down. A program is now in the making to start allowing tourists (under guidance) to also take a course in using the ELF for lionfish hunting and then go out on hunts with a guide.

Indeed the lionfish tastes GREAT! That might be a very valuable thing. At the moment (luckily) numbers and sizes are still a bit low to guarantee a steady supply to the restaurants but that seems to be a matter of time.

Bas - my apologies and thank you for clarification regarding the expense of purchasing the 'ELF' (Eliminate Lion Fish). I was told (firsthand, someone who possessed one) that the expense was out of pocket. Happily,they also stage informal gatherings on off-days to collect and dine. Let's hope the numbers stay low enough that it doesn't become a staple on menu's, except in someones home.

I know a few of well seasoned North Atlantic spearfishmen who would welcome the opportunity to go out on an organized seek, dispatch and dine day! Do I see the makings of a new PADI specialty ~Lionfish Dispatcher.

I heard Curacao is still awaiting a decision. As a classic Type-A personality I don't understand the wait...I've followed the migration and been diving other places the little buggers arrived, they had to know it was coming. Why not a little advance planning?

Anyway - keep up the dispatches, loved the pic of the table full of fish, thinking about all the reef fish you saved.

Flounder is YUMMY if cooked right. Use moist heat and don't over-cook. I'm not immediately sure what sauce goes best with it, but it's not hard to google that...

Wizard ~ my buddy just purchased the Lionfish Cookbook for me ('he kills, I grill' is our family mantra). When it arrives I'd be happy to share recipes. As for flounder, poached in a bit of medium bodied white wine and a speck of good butter, topped with some chopped tomato, red onion and cilantro is my favorite. A Ceviche style also lends itself well for both flounder and LF, but the fish must be done within hours of catching. Can't wait for our fish seasons to open - my freezer is almost depleted.

 

[Bas Noij]

Jersey, apologies not needed at all! Let me know when you are on Bonaire and we'll set up some hunting dives

Mike, first of all I don't understand why in your opinion there has to be THE solution. I think that problems like this can actually be tackled with a variety of solutions. IMHO every lionfish taken off the reef is a good thing so I don't understand why you think it is better to just stop because the divers can't reach the full lionfish population.

I think doing research in the Indo Pacific is actually a good point. My guess is that the research will find that in those regions the LF has natural predators. Over here it does not apart from man, and why should we not fill that gap? I don't see why an active populations of hunters could not result in some sort of balance. I'm not saying it will happen...but it could and I am surely willing to give it my all to try and achieve that.