Boat diving.Do we have it all wrong?!

[Gareth J]

As has been said previously, lifts are not an option on US flagged vessels because of government regulations. I have seen a 110 lb. petite woman rock a set of steel 108's. It's all about fitness level, not body type.

But there's no reason not to have a block and tackle to lift the kit from the water.
Granted site, conditions and skills may play a role, but anyone who dives from a RIB or inflatable de-kits in the water, and pulls the kit back over the tubes. Getting back in the boat on a RIB or inflatable is harder than climbing a ladder.

I understand, to some degree, the comments about being self sufficient. I am not as strong, or as fit as I was in my 30's and 40's, sports injuries and age are catching up with me. What I could have done at 30. I can't do now. I have learnt to adapt, if push comes to shove, i'll ditch kit so I can climb out, even if I can't get it back.

Dekitting in the water is normal practice for those diving from RIB's and inflatables, even in rough weather (we use above force 4 as the general rule to stop diving). There are some teams diving 100m wrecks off RIB's.
It's just adapting, training and practice.

Personally I prefer a slightly larger boat with, a lift, toilets and tea or hot chocolate.

 

[Jcp2]

All reasonable thoughts, but my impression is that you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink. The horse is not thirsty yet.

 

[rjack321]

But there's no reason not to have a block and tackle to lift the kit from the water.

If you can't climb the ladder go to another boat or skip the dive.

Hoisting someone's doubles aboard with winches and block and tackles is stupid, exhausting and time consuming. Just clipping the damn things off and not having them smash up the hull or get tangled in the prop and remain accessible is not trivial at all, especially on a high gunwale vessel. Most people can barely ditch doubles in the water without assistance and if its rough out strong currents, or there's a thunderstorm coming then this is a very slow risky process which puts every task on the crew. In many cases that's one person. No skipper wants to pander to weak customers who can't climb a ladder and every damn dive is basically using skills and equipment which *should* only get broken out for an emergency like a type 2 hit that leaves someone paralyzed and unable to board the boat.

 

[rjack321]

So you don't have any women in "your world"? How sad.

I had the pleasure of diving with a world-renowned female diver last summer (who I won't name without her permission). We completed a series of 200'+ dives where she used a jumbo rebreather, slung two 80s, a large camera system, and had a bunch of remote lights clipped to her harness. If this woman weighs 120 pounds, I'd be shocked. And while I don't know you @rjack321 I'd wager the deed to my house in Tobermory that she would out-dive you by a factor of six minimum.

Your attitude is really outdated. As in cave-dwelling outdated. Dude it's 2020. Women dive. Get used to it. Some will need a hand getting their kit up the ladder. If you can manage to tuck your massive balls out of the way, maybe it could be you helping them. They might even treat you to ice-cream for your chivalry. ;-)

I do deco dives with women all the time. Off my boat, charter boats, and from shore. Some are as young as 28-30ish and they range up into their 50s. They can ALL walk with their doubles or CCR on. They can all climb reasonable boat ladders with their doubles or CCR on too. They can ditch their gear and get back on my rib swimming over the tube. Yeah it's 2020, and female divers are not inherently weak and needing accommodations.

 

[wstorms]

I do wonder what a perfect boat would be. Let's forget about what is or isn't necessary, just talking about what I would like to see. Think facilities and services like:
- lift (yes I understand that can be challenging legally)
- backup ladder
- dive deck with enough room to don / doff kit without hitting your neighbor
- assistance with kit don / doff when asked
- onboard trimix analysers and maybe even compressors / banks with gas
- (drifting) deco trapeze
- "unlimited" supply of drinking water
- reef friendly sun block
- rinse bucket
- dry area
- suncovers / shaded areas
- enough staff so you feel like you can ask for assistance when you want to
- toilet

Obviously it is nice to dream, but these things do come at a cost. I think if a skipper can facilitate this for about 150 dollar / day (not including gasses) I would be quite happy.

 

[Mike1967]

Yeah it's 2020, and female divers are not inherently weak and needing accommodations.

Just curious, what's the year got to do with if woman are tough or not?

 

[Celt]

If you can't climb the ladder go to another boat or skip the dive.

Hoisting someone's doubles aboard with winches and block and tackles is stupid, exhausting and time consuming. Just clipping the damn things off and not having them smash up the hull or get tangled in the prop and remain accessible is not trivial at all, especially on a high gunwale vessel. Most people can barely ditch doubles in the water without assistance and if its rough out strong currents, or there's a thunderstorm coming then this is a very slow risky process which puts every task on the crew. In many cases that's one person. No skipper wants to pander to weak customers who can't climb a ladder and every damn dive is basically using skills and equipment which *should* only get broken out for an emergency like a type 2 hit that leaves someone paralyzed and unable to board the boat.

What you do on your boat is your business but if you think climbing a ladder dressed in twinsets is the best way to get back on a boat your sadly mistaken. It would be impossible to come over the side of a large fishing boat without dropping the gear, and I’ve never seen gear go under a boat and foul a prop or bash the side of the boat, it’s very easy to boom it out even in the heavy seas we get on the west of Ireland but then again our boat hands are made of tough stuff.

 

[Jake 10]

The first thing that comes to mind while reading this thread is the rule/advice first received when I started diving .... "dive within your limits".
… "dive within your limits"... includes but not limited to; being capable of handling your gear(s) in any situation, either by hoisting, tie-off, ditching, climbing the ladder fully loaded, or simply handle to crew if they offer assistance. Don't forget to tip on the last option .

 

[rjack321]

What you do on your boat is your business but if you think climbing a ladder dressed in twinsets is the best way to get back on a boat your sadly mistaken. It would be impossible to come over the side of a large fishing boat without dropping the gear, and I’ve never seen gear go under a boat and foul a prop or bash the side of the boat, it’s very easy to boom it out even in the heavy seas we get on the west of Ireland but then again our boat hands are made of tough stuff.

We have a pretty big fish boat that was converted to a dive charter here. One of our last operating charters. Sure it would have been great for them to install a lift but has been extensively explained elsewhere that is not going to happen in the USA under our Coast Guard rules. Especially not around here where there are almost zero out of town/country dive tourists to help support a business.

TS&M was well into her 60s before she died and she climbed that ladder with doubles on a couple of times. Yes she hated it because it was a terrible ladder with widely spaced rungs that was especially bad for short people and she was like 5'1". The deck of that boat was 4ft above the water line. There were three choices, climb that ladder, use a private boat, or go shore diving. Nobody in 20 some years of operating that charter had their gear winched aboard by a boom.

 

[rjack321]

Just curious, what's the year got to do with if woman are tough or not?

Ask Stoo, I was responding to the idea that women need some sort of chivalrous dive buddy to be advanced technical divers who can manage their basic gear like a set of doubles or their CCR by themselves with having the gear or their bodies winched aboard by the crew or buddies.

Being able to climb a dive ladder (not necessarily every ladder, some waterski ladders are terrible)
Walk across the deck
Stand up and sit down

Without extensive help is not some crazy unattainable level of fitness. Yes the crew might hold your hand or grab your manifold to steady you. Yes deco bottles beyond a 40 are usually passed up some other way. If someone can't even walk with their gear perhaps they should stick to single tanks.