I disagree on this. From a safety standpoint you can always ditch gear to get on the boat, in an emergency. A line can be thrown to the side and tanks tied off and pulled separately. Basically the extra weight can be minimized in numerous ways so no one has to overexert themselves in general.
Boat diving.Do we have it all wrong?!
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I disagree on this. From a safety standpoint you can always ditch gear to get on the boat, in an emergency. A line can be thrown to the side and tanks tied off and pulled separately. Basically the extra weight can be minimized in numerous ways so no one has to overexert themselves in general.
100days-a-year
Contributor
I can understand both sides but I'll offer up this question. If your profile is so liberal that the mere exercise of getting your gear out of the water bends you, isn't that more a case of poor decompression profile choice?
As I'm always on either a private boat or a commercial boat, there were no paid crew and we required divers to get their own gear out of the water most of the time. Handing up stages isn't an issue but expecting someone else to move your 90 pound doubles is. I made exceptions for seniors and divers with disabilities, but that was more courtesy as they could all get out unaided if necessary or they would be on the boat.
As I'm always on either a private boat or a commercial boat, there were no paid crew and we required divers to get their own gear out of the water most of the time. Handing up stages isn't an issue but expecting someone else to move your 90 pound doubles is. I made exceptions for seniors and divers with disabilities, but that was more courtesy as they could all get out unaided if necessary or they would be on the boat.
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markmud
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To the OP:
I can't speak for Dive Right in Scuba, but I don't think their policy isn't to help divers. It would be stupid for any boat to not lend a helping hand. What I gathered from his comments is that Marie was ALOT of work for his crew. So much that it became a safety concern when combined with other issues they had in her training.
I think the general concensus is if you're going to dive off of a boat you shouldn't need complete help with everything. If you're carrying a stage and doubles you should be able to get on the ladder (in decent seas) and hand up the stage or deco bottle and then make your way up the ladder on your own for the most part. I've never seen a crew not willing to grab onto a manifold or some other sort of help for the safety of the diver. I didn't gather that people feel if you can't you can't be a tech diver. My opinion is you should be able to do it all alone if for some reason you come across a crew that won't help or is so busy they can't help. You never want to be a burden on the crew. And it seems that's what Mike from DRIS was saying.
I think if you're incapable of climbing a ladder in doubles then you should really think twice about if you should be diving them and you should also consult with any boat you choose to use to make sure they're ok with helping. To say the measure of if you can be a tech diver or not is based on not needing help is dumb though. My wife gets severely sea sick no matter what she does. We'd love to do some OW deco wreck dives, but we don't. The concern is if she is getting sea sick will she have the strength to walk around the boat in doubles when she feels awful. As soon as she hits the water she's fine. It's funny on boats the crew worry about her being so sea sick and then watch her be the first one off the boat and into the water. In a single tank it's not an issue and we pre-warn the crew she has bad seasickness. In doubles on a pitching boat, she could have issues. So thus far we avoid OW tech diving and stick to caves.
I can't speak for Dive Right in Scuba, but I don't think their policy isn't to help divers. It would be stupid for any boat to not lend a helping hand. What I gathered from his comments is that Marie was ALOT of work for his crew. So much that it became a safety concern when combined with other issues they had in her training.
I think the general concensus is if you're going to dive off of a boat you shouldn't need complete help with everything. If you're carrying a stage and doubles you should be able to get on the ladder (in decent seas) and hand up the stage or deco bottle and then make your way up the ladder on your own for the most part. I've never seen a crew not willing to grab onto a manifold or some other sort of help for the safety of the diver. I didn't gather that people feel if you can't you can't be a tech diver. My opinion is you should be able to do it all alone if for some reason you come across a crew that won't help or is so busy they can't help. You never want to be a burden on the crew. And it seems that's what Mike from DRIS was saying.
I think if you're incapable of climbing a ladder in doubles then you should really think twice about if you should be diving them and you should also consult with any boat you choose to use to make sure they're ok with helping. To say the measure of if you can be a tech diver or not is based on not needing help is dumb though. My wife gets severely sea sick no matter what she does. We'd love to do some OW deco wreck dives, but we don't. The concern is if she is getting sea sick will she have the strength to walk around the boat in doubles when she feels awful. As soon as she hits the water she's fine. It's funny on boats the crew worry about her being so sea sick and then watch her be the first one off the boat and into the water. In a single tank it's not an issue and we pre-warn the crew she has bad seasickness. In doubles on a pitching boat, she could have issues. So thus far we avoid OW tech diving and stick to caves.
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I have a somewhat different perspective regarding the need for assistance. Most of my diving in SE Florida is on boats with rec divers using a backmount single cylinder, sometimes with a pony. Not infrequently, there are divers in backmount doubles or divers with a rebreather. Sidemount is very unusual with the operators I use.
I don't believe I've seen the divers with doubles or a rebreather receiving extra help from crew. However, I have dived many times with divers in a backmount single who, for a wide variety of reasons, have required, and received, extensive assistance from crew to be able to dive. This often consists of the diver sitting on the dive platform and having a crew member bring over and assist them in getting into their BC and cylinder. They do a forward roll into the water and execute their dive. At the end of the dive, they remove their BC and cylinder in the water and it is taken by the crew. Some of them also require assistance in reboarding via the ladder.
On my last trip down to Florida, I made the acquaintance of a man with a congenital bone disease and many corrective surgeries, leaving him with residual deformities and weakness of his back and lower extremities. He was a very experienced and skilled diver with an incredibly good attitude. He usually dived 3 times per week, on weekdays, when the boat was less busy. He did most all of his own prep but needed the assistance to get off and then get back on the boat. Over the 4 or 5 trips I did with this gentleman, I developed a lot of respect for my new friend.
So, the amount of extra assistance a diver might need is between the diver and the boat crew. I would not begrudge a diver the opportunity to dive if the boat crew is able and willing to supply the assistance required. Of course, safety issues are a separate topic and must be taken into consideration. Sometimes I stop and ask myself, what if that person was me? I would really appreciate the opportunity to dive, as long as I was able.
I don't believe I've seen the divers with doubles or a rebreather receiving extra help from crew. However, I have dived many times with divers in a backmount single who, for a wide variety of reasons, have required, and received, extensive assistance from crew to be able to dive. This often consists of the diver sitting on the dive platform and having a crew member bring over and assist them in getting into their BC and cylinder. They do a forward roll into the water and execute their dive. At the end of the dive, they remove their BC and cylinder in the water and it is taken by the crew. Some of them also require assistance in reboarding via the ladder.
On my last trip down to Florida, I made the acquaintance of a man with a congenital bone disease and many corrective surgeries, leaving him with residual deformities and weakness of his back and lower extremities. He was a very experienced and skilled diver with an incredibly good attitude. He usually dived 3 times per week, on weekdays, when the boat was less busy. He did most all of his own prep but needed the assistance to get off and then get back on the boat. Over the 4 or 5 trips I did with this gentleman, I developed a lot of respect for my new friend.
So, the amount of extra assistance a diver might need is between the diver and the boat crew. I would not begrudge a diver the opportunity to dive if the boat crew is able and willing to supply the assistance required. Of course, safety issues are a separate topic and must be taken into consideration. Sometimes I stop and ask myself, what if that person was me? I would really appreciate the opportunity to dive, as long as I was able.
A good example of a one size fits all regulatory scheme that likely causes more harms by preventing adoption of the tech than would be caused by the failures if unregulated. (Liability motivations would still exist to provide suitability for purpose and maintainance.)
IIRC, cargo lifts are subject to much lesser regulation. Maybe a dump your rig in the basket, and climb the ladder unecumbered scheme might work.
Almost every boat/course liability waiver has some sort of clause that says "I certify that I'm fit do do this stuff". Getting myself back on the boat is what I agreed to up front.
broncobowsher
Contributor
I don't know what thread this is spun off of per the OPs first post, I can't read everything here.
Should one be capable of getting ones self back onto a dive boat? Yes.
It may mean working smarter and not harder, tie gear off onto a line and retrieve once on the boat. Or if a real emergency set it adrift. You should be smart enough to figure a way out and rigged in such a way it can happen.
Should one be required to climb a ladder with every bit of gear they take into the water. No.
Not on a tech dive. That is working harder, not smarter. There is a bit of fuzz to this question as well. If you are in a set of doubles and no extra gear, you better be able to get your own ass onto the boat. But start adding stages, scooter, camera, etc, No, that extra stuff needs to be handed off. So there is a bit of wiggle room on how much of a tech dive it really is.
If the seas are so rough that customers and crew are being injured, there isn't a good way to pass extra gear to the boat. Well there were multiple mistakes made. The diver should have called the dive and the boat shouldn't have taken the divers out. If rough seas are common and expected, plans (diver and boat) should be made ahead of time. If the boats only plan is "climb up the ladder with everything", the diver should choose a different boat.
Should one be capable of getting ones self back onto a dive boat? Yes.
It may mean working smarter and not harder, tie gear off onto a line and retrieve once on the boat. Or if a real emergency set it adrift. You should be smart enough to figure a way out and rigged in such a way it can happen.
Should one be required to climb a ladder with every bit of gear they take into the water. No.
Not on a tech dive. That is working harder, not smarter. There is a bit of fuzz to this question as well. If you are in a set of doubles and no extra gear, you better be able to get your own ass onto the boat. But start adding stages, scooter, camera, etc, No, that extra stuff needs to be handed off. So there is a bit of wiggle room on how much of a tech dive it really is.
If the seas are so rough that customers and crew are being injured, there isn't a good way to pass extra gear to the boat. Well there were multiple mistakes made. The diver should have called the dive and the boat shouldn't have taken the divers out. If rough seas are common and expected, plans (diver and boat) should be made ahead of time. If the boats only plan is "climb up the ladder with everything", the diver should choose a different boat.
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